the Elias forum: Digests of Essential Elias.









out-of-body experiences

Elias “gems”

ELIAS: “Now! First of all, we will incorporate an adjustment of some terminology, to be more efficient for our purposes.

Henceforth, I shall refer to your waking state of consciousness as objective consciousness or self.

All altered states of consciousness, such as your dream state, your state within out-of-body experiences, and all other altered consciousness, as you view them, including your view of ‘subconscious,’ shall be referred to as subjective consciousness or self.

These terms are more efficient and encompassing for your understanding, for all of your conscious state that you view within your waking element deals with information projected out and received from ‘out.’ All other information is directed from within and processed within.” [session 92, May 05, 1996]

ELIAS: “You engage the action of what you term to be out-of-body experiences within waking state, within sleeping state, consciously, unconsciously, in your terms, within altered states, in your terms. You may experience out-of-body action, so to speak, within what you term to be a daydream. Within missing time, as you experience, you are experiencing an out-of-body. You experience this action much of your time. You are not aware objectively of this action, for you do not translate into your objective language the action that you are engaged in.

As to your thinking while you are engaged in this action of out-of-body; the action of physical thought is quite valuable if you may train yourself to be consciously, objectively consciously, aware within the action of out-of-body experience. Thought processes are a creation of physical focus. You think in terms of language, which is symbolic. Thoughts, within physical focus, are symbolic energy. They are symbols. They are a language. Therefore, it would be helpful to you if you allowed yourselves to train your objective consciousness, your thought processes, to mingle with your subjective activity and create an efficient language for translation of subjective activity into objective knowing. You do not remember your experiences out-of-body, for you have not created this language to be translating subjective activity. Therefore, you have no frame of reference within your objective, waking state. You then are left with ‘blank space.’

NORM: Not even feelings or intuition.

ELIAS: You are attempting to translate non-physical, subjective consciousness action into objective consciousness; this being the same as what you expressed earlier within the action of Regional Area 3, and wishing to know the mechanics of this area of consciousness. You are attempting to label experiences which do not fit within this area of consciousness. Therefore, they must be translated. All that you view is a translation. All that you think is a translation. Within other areas of consciousness, thought is not what you ‘think!’” [session 135, November 24, 1996]

FRANK: “I’m not sure I understand what you mean by projection. Can you define that?

ELIAS: Projection is the action of allowing aspects of your consciousness to be moving freely; not in association with your body consciousness.

Now; projection allows you the involvement, so to speak, of both objective and subjective awarenesses.

It is what many individuals within your physical focus presently identify as out-of-body experiences, although I may express to you that I identify a distinction between a projection of consciousness and what you may actually identify as an out-of-body experience.

For an element of your consciousness continues to be focused and interactive with the body consciousness within the action of projection. In a manner of speaking figuratively, you divide your awareness and allow an element of your consciousness to be continuing in interaction with your body consciousness subjectively, but you also allow yourself an element of your consciousness, subjectively and objectively, to be moving freely through consciousness, moving through the barriers, so to speak, of time, space, and even at times dimensions.

An actual out-of-body experience is the removal of your subjective awareness and its interaction with the body consciousness. Therefore, the body consciousness is, in a manner of speaking, left to be functioning temporarily without interactiveness or instruction from the subjective awareness.

In this, the action of an out-of-body experience may be engaged for much less time framework than a projection of consciousness, for there is, in effect, within your physical dimension, a necessity for instruction and interaction between the subjective awareness and the body consciousness to be continuing the functioning of the physical body.

Therefore, in projection, you allow yourself to move your consciousness, subjectively and objectively, in part, so to speak, away from your physical body consciousness, and without the encumbering of the physical matter of body expression, you may allow yourself more of a freedom of movement.

Now; let me express to you, this also is an influence of your belief systems, for in actuality, you may allow yourself this same type of movement WITH the incorporation of your physical body. But as you do not believe that you may move through time or space arrangements dimensionally incorporating the physical body expression, you do not allow yourself the freedom of that type of movement.

Whereas you DO allow yourself this type of movement in the design of what you create as what may be identified as an ‘astral body.’ This also is a creation that you have engaged as a means to be continuing with your identification of self as you move through consciousness.” [session 674, August 04, 2000]

Elias “gems”

ELIAS: “Originally, many thousands of your years before you believe your planet even existed, it did exist, and you manifest within consciousness here. You chose the elements of your world and how it would be manifest physically. You chose to manifest all of your creatures, all of your plant life, your rocks, your sand, your water, your atmosphere. You experimented with these elements also. You moved through consciousness nonphysically, not manifest. You were within continuous interaction with nature, as you have created it.

As you moved through your time element, which you also created, you created different expressions within this physical world. You created what you view to be a universe around you. After a period, you blinked out as a species, moving to other worlds and creating them also. Blinking back into this world, you became Dream Walkers. This is where we incorporate your Seers.

In this, you must try to understand that your time of manifestation was quite different. You did not incorporate time physically, the way that you incorporate it now. You only partially manifest physically. The simplest explanation of this manifestation would be to express that you moved through what you now term as astral bodies. This is your consciousness body, which you do possess; this body being that form that you incorporate when you experience an out-of-body. You will travel with another body. This is the form that is more identified with the Seers. You may express this as a ‘light body,’ for it is basically comprised of light. This is not what you understand as light, for it is not visual light.” [session 72, February 18, 1996]

ELIAS: “It is important, as you are widening, to be merging objective and subjective realities. This you may view as a process, although there are no processes, (grinning) for you shall move yourself into the awareness of this mergence gradually; this benefiting you each in avoidance of trauma, in not thrusting yourselves into the mergence of awareness and disorientation.

BOB: So would that explain to some extent the dream that I had the other night?

ELIAS: This is not a dream. This action is not dream imagery. This is a different action. This is similar information offered to you in unofficial information that you recall. You have recalled objectively an out-of-body experience. Simultaneously, William [Gail] also engaged an out-of-body experience. Therefore you, in recognizing this momentarily, thought to be expressing to William [Gail], although William [Gail] was not paying attention. You engaged your own activity within another direction. As you realized that you were not engaged within what you view to be a waking state, your response was instantaneous, in ’snapping back’ to physical expression.

BOB: Okay, I pretty much understood everything you said, except in the beginning you said that I was not in dream state.

ELIAS: Correct.

BOB: So, you’re saying I was awake. Because I initially thought I was awake.

ELIAS: No. You engaged your sleep state. Within this process, you chose to be engaging in an out-of-body experience, which you all experience and accomplish, underline this entirely, every sleep state! You do not recall all of your out-of-body experiences. You have offered yourself the opportunity to recall the activity that you engaged in this out-of-body experience.

BOB: So, while I was out-of-body I engaged unofficial information, recognized that I did, let myself experience it to some extent with some comfort, sought to engage her (Gail) in it unsuccessfully, and at some point realized that I was out-of-body but didn’t recognize it as that, chose to recognize it as being in a dream, and that snapped me back in body and awake simultaneously.

ELIAS: Correct.

DREW: How does that differ from a dream?

ELIAS: Dreams are imagery. They are an interpretation of subjective activity. You engage out-of-body, in your terms, activity continuously. Within every day of your physical existence, you experience out-of-body situations. You do not recall this action, for within your belief systems this is unnatural and frightening. And as we are all aware, you only disconnect from your physical body at the point of death! Therefore, be wary of out-of-body experiences! (Very humorously)

But to continue, within the experience of what you think of as out-of-body, you may recall portions of the action that you engage. You may choose to engage similar action to physical waking state; walking through hallways, looking at furniture, stepping outside of your doorway, viewing yourself within another physical location upon your planet. These are all actions that you may engage. They are not the entirety of the action that you do engage every time period within your sleep state, but your consciousness may choose physical activity temporarily. In this, you may recall, if you are allowing yourself, your activity during this state.

Within dream state, or what you term to be dream state, this is an imagery that you create for yourself which is an interpretation creatively of the action that you have engaged while in your sleep state. It has been stated many times to you that your sleep state is not engaged for physical restfulness. Your physical expression, your body, does not require sleep state. Your consciousness requires sleep state as you are engaged within physical focus, for this is your opportunity to be in communion with essence. This is your opportunity to exert your creativity to its maximum ability within physical focus; your engagement of Regional Area 2.

DREW: And the dream is the interpretation of those experiences.


DREW: Was Ron’s experience then an actual physical manifestation in a different physical dimension? Is that what you’re saying? That his out-of-body experience was a manifestation in another physical dimension, as opposed to just imagery of a subjective experience in dream state? (I think Drew meant to say Bob, not Ron)

ELIAS: Not another dimension; (pause) another area of consciousness within this dimension.

DREW: Really. Within this physical dimension?

ELIAS: Correct.

DREW: He projected out-of-body into another area of consciousness in this physical dimension?

ELIAS: Correct.

DREW: I don’t understand that! (Laughter) Am I alone in this?

BOB: A dimension can be parallel, so it can even be the same proximity. It’s just not necessarily, in time, the same place. At least that’s how I understand it.

DREW: So when he recalls walking through hallways with rafters and glowing red and holes in the door and that kind of thing, that was an actual physical experience? (Referring to Bob’s OOBE in dream state)

ELIAS: Correct.

DREW: Not imagery.

ELIAS: Correct.

BOB: Now, a couple questions here. I tried to interact with Gail while in that out-of-body state. Could she have interacted with me, and would interaction be not unlike our activity in objective consciousness?

ELIAS: Yes, she could interact with you if choosing to do so, and if choosing to do so, this interaction would not be unlike the interaction that you experience within waking state.

BOB: So these out-of-body experiences, which I don’t believe I’ve had that often because this seemed somewhat ... (Here, Elias sits up straight and grins at everybody) I heard you say I have them all the time! I heard that! (Much laughter) But I have not experienced consciously having them in the same way that that I did the other night. I didn’t remember them.

VICKI: Recognition is an amazing thing!

RETA: Maybe he’ll get another trophy!

BOB: Now I’ve lost my train of thought! Are there interactions in that state with varieties of other essences? Are those common? Or generally, when you’re out-of-body you’re projecting by yourself in whatever dimension you’re in and there aren’t a lot of other out-of-body focuses to interact with at that point?

ELIAS: You are never by yourself! You may not be aware within your remembrance of interaction with other essences, but you are never engaged within an action alone!

BOB: Okay, I’ll just accept that for now. I think I’m probably the only human to ever accept that! (Much laughter, and somebody says, ‘Another trophy!') The other question I have is, since these out-of-body experiences happen regularly and commonly without remembrance, do they happen simultaneously with imagery and layers of imagery and we just access one thing at a time? Are they not necessarily all interconnected? For instance this experience, I’m out-of-body, I’m experiencing something, okay? And I’m actually interacting with it or remembering it. At the same time, am I experiencing dream state activity that I might have been remembering instead of this? Am I doing lots of things simultaneously within this dream state?

ELIAS: In actuality, yes.

BOB: Okay. So it’s kind of like picking which part of the disk I’m gonna access at any given point.

ELIAS: Presently, you may view it in this manner, for do not allow yourself the luxury of viewing all of your facets of yourself simultaneously.

BOB: But I could.


BOB: Will I??? (We all crack up)

ELIAS: Yes.” [session 152, February 09, 1997]

ELIAS: “You shall be experiencing much subjective bleed-through information into objective reality. In this, let me express that the definition I offer for subjective activity would be all of that type of consciousness which is not waking consciousness. This would be including all altered states, in your terminology, all other focuses, all dream imagery, all of which you consider to be removed or subconscious. Many individuals within their belief systems also attribute this to being super-consciousness or cosmic consciousness. They are all the same. They are subjective awareness, which is the larger aspect of you as essence. This holds tremendous information and also imagery.

In this, within this particular dimension you have been extremely selective in your manifestation, limiting your awareness to only objective awareness, allowing for slight amounts of subjective bleed-through. Within the action of this shift, you have opened the floodgates and allowed the subjective awareness to rush into objective awareness. Therefore, within your waking state, within your consciousness that you recognize as you and that you are aware of, you may experience many different types of occurrences. Some individuals within your present now encounter what they term to be aliens. These are focuses of their essence. Some individuals experience what they term to be walk-ins. (1) These are exchanges of focuses of other dimensions. They are reality. Some individuals experience bleed-throughs of information and imagery of focuses within this dimension, that which you classify as past lives.

Individuals may be experiencing alterations in imagery within their waking, everyday experience. Objects within their experience may alter. You may view a chair, and it may be become another object, and it may return to a chair. You may experience many altered states of consciousness spontaneously, without effort, not intentionally. You may experience increase in projection or out-of-body experiences. These are all natural, normal elements of essence which you are allowing yourself to objectively become aware of.

Within this action you also encounter many of your held belief systems, for these are blocking elements. Therefore, they surface to be addressed, that they may be accepted and your awareness may be widened in these areas; for within the accomplishment of your shift globally, there is no place for the non-acceptance of these belief systems. This is not an elimination of belief systems! It is an acceptance in awareness of their existence and a neutralization of their power.

NORM: ... I have some questions in regard to remote viewing. Ingo Swan, about 30 years ago, developed remote viewing with the Stanford Research Institute for the intelligence agency of the US Government. Recently that has been disbanded and another individual, a political scientist in Georgia by the name of Richard Courtney, I believe his name is, has taken up the gauntlet, so to speak, and in his book, I believe it’s called Cosmic Voyage, he described a remote viewing of Mars and aliens there on Mars. As you mentioned earlier, this could be part of the confusion. That’s one question I have in regard to this, and another question I have in regard to this is, how filtering are our belief systems in the application of remote viewing by focuses here in this reality?

ELIAS: Each of you holds this ability. This is not an action that is limited to certain individuals. It is an actualization of inner senses, which you may develop and you may accomplish within also. Within the action of your shift, this shall be a natural occurrence.

As to the accuracy of information delivered and the influence of belief systems within this area, this would be depending upon the individual engaging this inner sense. It also is dependent upon the focus of the viewing; for if you are viewing elements within your own dimension that you are familiar with, you may be accurately describing and relaying information as to what you view. If you are accessing viewing other dimensions to which manifestations upon a planet within your present solar system would be indicative of another dimension ... for within this dimension these planets within your solar system do not hold life as you recognize or intelligence as you recognize ... this may be a viewing within another dimension, but this is subject to interpretation and belief system filtration, for you shall view elements that are unfamiliar and unknown to you. Therefore, to be objectively expressing an explanation of these viewings, you must within your objective consciousness rearrange the information to fit your language and your imagery.” [session 183, June 15, 1997]

VIVIEN: “I have a question. About two years ago, I was attempting to do an out-of-body. I was in bed and it was fairly late at night, but instead of doing an out-of-body, another entirely ... well, not entirely different sensation, but a sensation that was more powerful ... the only way I can describe it is, an energy was coming up from my boots and kind of like going like a train through me, and then I felt a voice in my throat that was about to speak. I stopped it because my husband was lying next to me and I didn’t want to freak him out! But it felt like a voice. Can you tell me what that was, and if that’s what it was?

(Vic’s terminology note: when Elias says ‘this essence,’ he is referring to himself. ‘Energy exchange’ is his term for ‘channeling’.)

ELIAS: Within the objective of attempting to be entering into an out-of-body experience, you allow yourself to enter what you term to be an altered stated of consciousness ... although it is not altered! (Grinning) In this, you allow yourself an opening objectively, within trustfulness and acceptance of self. Therefore, you allow subjective activity to be recognized objectively. Within this state, you also may at times allow more of your self in its entirety, essence, to be interacting within the individual focus. Therefore, you do not engage an energy exchange in what you view with this essence, but you allow your essence to be communicating. In this, you also allow your own validation of this interaction by allowing yourself within the focus to be experiencing physical sensation. Had you chosen to be continuing with this allowance, you are correct, you would have been experiencing verbalization of information to be offered to yourself. This would appear to be another entity speaking through you.

VIVIEN: Kind of like you are now through Mary? In that way, or not?

ELIAS: No. Within an interaction of your essence. Although within consciousness there is no separation, for the purpose of understanding within your language and your ideas and your belief systems within physical focus, I make a differentiation of this energy exchange. Within this, different tones merge to be creating of this energy exchange; that tone of Michael’s [Mary’s] essence and that tone of this essence. Within the mergence, there is an exchange. In this, in your terms physically to your understanding, you may express that Michael [Mary] removes from the objective expression, allowing the body consciousness to disengage from subjective interaction and therefore also allowing the energy of this essence to be moving into the physical space arrangement, connecting with the individual physical body consciousness. Therefore, this essence directs the subjective activity which directs this body consciousness that you view. Michael [Mary] moves to an area of consciousness that disengages all subjective communication with this body consciousness.

Within the action that you have experienced, you have allowed yourself the opportunity to be accessing your essence; the same tone; that which you may view or express as your higher self. This is not in actuality your ‘higher self.’ It is yourself, but you do not recognize all of the aspects of self, for your attention is directed to this focus objectively. Therefore, you forget temporarily, while engaging this physical focus, your own multidimensionality and the vastness of self. In this, you allowed a time period within your objective recognition of an entering into your objective awareness, within your physical body consciousness, the vastness of essence. This creates an energy surge.

VIVIEN: That’s what it felt like!

ELIAS: For within physical reality, you intentionally choose to be disconnecting with your awareness of essence for the purity of your experience while in physical focus. You intentionally forget self. You focus upon one aspect of self within an objective materialization physically of a focus. As you allow subjective interaction and that element of essence to bleed through into your awareness, you open your subjective and objective awarenesses to merge. In this mergence, you allow an intensity of energy from essence to surge within your physical form. This also, in similarity to objective feeling with Michael [Mary], is an opening to allow the intensity of your energy. Therefore, the body consciousness recognizes this surge, as a floodgate shall open. In this, the energy from essence shall appear to flood into the body consciousness.

The difference with these experiences is: Within the floodgate opening of energy within this experience that you express, your body consciousness recognizes your tone of essence. Therefore, it is accepting of this energy and shall produce an exhilarating feeling, but also shall create a response within body consciousness that your cells identify as a flooding of energy. Therefore, they are responding in reaction to energy which is not normally incorporated within the focus. Within Michael [Mary], the subjective communication is discontinued. Therefore, the energy is unrecognized within the body consciousness. In this, there is a different response to the influx of energy, in a physical rejection of unfamiliar energy.

You each have created your form from its first cell. It knows you. It lives, in your terms, as a projection of essence which is familiar with you. It knows all of your aspects. It knows all of your essence. Therefore, it is accepting of this action; this being also why I suggest to you that an essence may not be intrusive to another essence, for your form shall not accept, outside of agreement, this influx of energy. It does not in your terms belong to you, and your watchdog of your body consciousness is aware.

In this, you shall have offered yourself information which you seek, but within fearfulness an action of non-acceptance was incorporated. In this, the action was refused and blocked. You may trust futurely that this shall not be harmful to you and that you may engage this action if so choosing once again, and you may offer yourself answers to many questions that you hold, which may be more beneficial than your excursions out-of-body.” [session 184, June 20, 1997]

PAUL: “I have a question following-up that you reminded me of. I had an out-of-body experience with Jane Roberts many years ago in a [dream] class somewhere, and in that experience, Jane walked behind me and placed her hands over my eyes, covering them, and that shifted my focus into what I guess I’m realizing was a glimpse of a larger or wider area of focus. In my memory of that – it lasted a short period of time – it was a glittering, moving stillness of darkness and light are the only words I can use to describe it, but it has stayed with me. I’m wondering if you would comment on that. Is that Regional Area 2? Is that a glimpse of spacious present perception? Could you offer some interpretation?

ELIAS: (Intently) This is an offering to yourself in imagery of not looking without, but looking within to the vastness of consciousness, and offering yourself a type of imagery different to your objective waking imagery, and allowing you to view different elements of the action of consciousness; the sparklingness of it; the movement and the effortlessness of it not being a thing, but not being nothing.

PAUL: And it was vast; it was huge.

ELIAS: Far beyond your comprehension.

PAUL: And that’s why it was just a short perception on my part?

ELIAS: Correct. This is not necessarily a designation of a specific area of consciousness, but of consciousness itself.” [session 224, October 01, 1997]

ELIAS: “I express to you that within the action of this shift, you shall be accomplishing these elements as easily as moving from one room to another room; but presently, you hold many reservations and belief systems that confine you within this particular dimension. Lawrence [Vicki] is attempting to move outside of these belief systems and actually project through space into another dimension. Many individuals upon your planet project themselves to another location within this dimension upon your planet.

VIVIEN: What we consider an out-of-body.

ELIAS: Correct. They do not project themselves to another planet, even within your own dimension and solar system. This is projecting, in your terms, much farther, for this would be a penetration of dimensional veils.” [session 226, October 05, 1997]

JIM: “Move to the issue of NDE; near death experience; when people clinically die, but are revived for whatever reason or manner. There have been thousands of cases, but one of the most extraordinary is Dannion Brinkley, who was hit by lightning in 1975, died for eighteen minutes, then came back only to die again several years later from heart surgery and come back a second time. You might say he was almost indecisive about maintaining physical focus! He describes it as a great pain, then as a release followed by a great feeling of peace, and then an out-of-body experience where he looks down on his physical body and those that attended it, followed by a rushing up into a black tunnel, followed by meeting beings of light, as he called them, feeling an overwhelming sense of well-being, and then being presented with a life review in which everything that happened to him is reviewed, and also to the person he interacted with. He could see it from their point of view. He killed people in Vietnam, and was able to experience their deaths. Is this what happens to us when we leave physical focus?

ELIAS: It is dependent upon your belief systems. For this individual, this is reality, for this individual’s belief systems dictate this; that you must be approached with a life review and experience what others have experienced that you have inflicted. This is a belief system connected with karma. There is no karma. There are MANY belief systems.

Now; I may express to you that some of these experiences are common to very, very, very many individuals in disengagement of physical focus; that of hovering momentarily and viewing your physical body is quite common. Many individual focuses choose this experience. They are disengaging from the physical body consciousness and evaluating momentarily the choice of their disengagement and how they have disengaged from the physical body consciousness. Therefore, they momentarily view the body consciousness, also allowing a last interaction with this body consciousness; a last communication.

Subsequent to this action, which is quite momentarily, many individuals of focuses enter a temporary state of peacefulness prior to engaging transition. This also may be viewed as momentarily, within your terms. It is what you may term to be a brief, temporary state of respite, so to speak; of peacefulness before entering into the area of transition. Once entering into the area of transition, how you transition is dictated by your belief systems. Some individuals hold belief systems that they shall be moving into the light; the tunnel that shall lead them to the heavenly areas and what they think of within their belief systems as their eternal bliss. Some individuals hold belief systems that they shall immediately move to the area of hell, which also does not exist, but they shall create this temporarily and experience its full force, for the full force and intensity of their belief systems shall come to bear.

What you experience once you disengage is absolutely dictated by your belief systems, and which belief systems you have moved through and which belief systems you have accepted and which belief systems you hold very strongly, and also whether you have chosen to engage transition while you are still within your physical focus. This may also be quite affecting of what you may be experiencing once moving into the area of transition non-physically. (Pause) And how very interesting that you now approach what you term to be very closeness to your cure, so to speak, of your senility!” (2) [session 232, October 31, 1998]

PAUL: “I had an out-of-body experience on March 13th of this year, in which for the first time I was actually able to project consciously out of my body into my bedroom. (3) So my question is, at the very moment that I separated ... well, I know there’s no separation. At the moment my perception changed and my environment changed, was my experience still within the context of what you call Regional Area 1?

ELIAS: Yes. Let me express to you that within an out-of-body experience, as you continue to involve yourself with your objective reality, so to speak, you are projecting your consciousness through space, but continuing within Regional Area 1.

Now; I may also express to you that you hold the ability and it is entirely possible that you may project within what you term to be an out-of-body experience and you may project into different areas of consciousness, but within those experiences that you find yourself moving within familiar areas and with familiar objects, you are continuing to be moving within Regional Area 1 of consciousness. You are merely moving through space and time, as in differentiation to moving around space and in time.

PAUL: So in that experience, subsequently I explored my house and came back into my bedroom, and I believe, in what you term as a focal point, I dove through the bedroom window and I know I shifted gears, as it were, and I had two basic ... what I describe as a scenario. One involved an urban situation with a black painter, and the second one involved a college campus that I had attempted to connect with in Brattleboro, Vermont. In those two scenarios, where I know I shifted gears, was I still experiencing in Regional Area 1?

ELIAS: Yes, but you are also allowing for a partial dimensional veil-piercing. Regional Area 1 is much vaster than you realize. It encompasses much more within the potential for your experiences than you recognize. You view Regional Area 1 as being very limiting and merely that which is your waking experience, but it encompasses experiences that you may allow yourself beyond your normal, usual focus of attention, for you focus your attention quite singularly, and as you are allowing yourself to open more freely to many more elements within consciousness, you may also view that there is much more expansiveness to Regional Area 1 than you have allowed yourself an awareness of.

Now; also in this, I express to you that you pierce a veil of dimension, for within this dimension there are inclusive many other dimensions, some being very parallel and some being different qualities of different time frameworks. In this, you have allowed yourself to be piercing a time framework veil within your objective Regional 1 awareness. You may accomplish this within your waking state also. Be assured, you may be piercing time veils in your objective waking state. You may also be accomplishing of this more easily within an out-of-body experience, for you allow yourself more freedom within this state.” [session 281, May 17, 1998]

ELIAS: “This evening we shall begin with a very popular subject matter within this time framework, that of projection. Many individuals in this time period are fascinated with consciousness and the manipulation of themselves within consciousness and the experiential aspect of different areas of consciousness.

Now; let me express to you that within projection, or that which you term to be out-of-body experiences, (chuckling) these occupy the same Regional Area 1 as you occupy within your waking state of awareness, that which we term to be your objective awareness. A projection within consciousness is also within this same area of consciousness. You are not moving into Regional Area 2, which would be the subjective area of consciousness. Therefore, there is a difference between your dream state and a projection or out-of-body state.

In this, many individuals express questioning and inquiries as to how they may be accomplishing this situation and holding the experience of an out-of-body experience. Therefore, I shall offer you an exercise that you may practice, and this may be helpful to you in your engagement of this activity, if you are so choosing.

Let me express to you what the advantage is of engaging in this type of action. In engaging the allowance of an out-of-body experience that you hold an objective recall of ... for you DO engage in out-of-body experiences quite often. You merely do not allow yourselves the remembrance of this action objectively. This does not mean that you do not engage the action, for you do, but the advantage to yourselves in engaging this action is that this allows you the opportunity to manipulate within consciousness. It allows you the opportunity to move into other areas of creativity within your objective state of awareness. It also allows you an opening within your awareness that prepares you in the action of this shift, for within this shift in consciousness you shall be moving into more of an awareness of your reality, of yourselves, of your own subjectivity, and of essence, and in this allowing yourselves the opportunity to engage other dimensions, other realities, other areas of consciousness.

In engaging out-of-body experiences, you also may manipulate THROUGH space and THROUGH the thickness of your time framework. You allow yourselves a window to move through time frameworks. You are not bound to this one particular time element. Therefore, you loose the hold of your belief systems and your perception of linear time. This allows you more of a mobility within consciousness, and it allows you an objective awareness of your mobility and your creativity. Therefore, it is not merely a fun activity – although it may be considered fun – but it is also useful to you within your movement in this dimension in accessing information more efficiently and allowing yourselves more of a mobility.

Therefore, I offer to you this exercise.”

[find out more about the SNAP – a beginning course in out-of-body projection exercise].

SALLY: ... I have one other question about the out-of-body experience.

ELIAS: Very well.

SALLY: Did I understand you to say that we could project to any physical area, or could we, say, project to Venus?

ELIAS: Absolutely.

SALLY: It doesn’t have to be on Earth physically, right?

ELIAS: No. You may project within another dimension if you are so choosing.

RODNEY: I have a question. I’m working on a little math problem. Could I project myself into one of the workings of this mathematics?

ELIAS: Absolutely. Let me express to you that mathematics, in your understanding of it, are relative to this dimension. Therefore, they are closely involved with this particular dimension objectively. In this, you need be projecting merely within your own dimension and not outside of your own dimension to be accessing this particular information, for your mathematics which apply to your physical manifestation of this particular dimension are relative only to it and are not relative to other physical dimensions, and are not relative at all to non-physical areas.

MARI: ... You mentioned projecting possibly into another dimension?

ELIAS: Quite.

MARI: I know that we create our own reality, but if we go into another dimension, can we also go into someone else’s reality ... that we might like their creation?

ELIAS: No. This would be an aspect of essence and would be deemed intrusive. Every creation, every focus, every aspect holds its own integrity, its own tone, and its own choices, and just as no other element of consciousness may project into you – with the exception of mergence, through agreement only, to be accessing information within the area of experience temporarily, but only with expressed agreement – you also may not be intrusive to any other essence within consciousness.

You may project into another dimension, another reality, but this projection may hold slight differences from that in which you project in this particular dimension, for in this particular dimension, within the action of projection, at times, if allowing yourself the openness, you may be not only aware of other individuals projecting also, but they shall also hold an awareness of you. Within other dimensions, you shall be aware of other individuals, so to speak – for I shall not be labeling them as ‘beings,’ for this perpetuates your belief systems of extraterrestrials and aliens, which all of you are – but they shall not hold an awareness of you, therefore continuing the veil that shall not be interrupting or disturbing of their reality and their creation of it, for each dimension is created purposefully for that particular individual experience within physical reality – its own purposefulness, its own exploration of experiences – and they are all different.

Therefore, just as little aliens do not interrupt your dimension – which they do not – and alter your reality, you also shall not be interrupting of their reality. This is intrusive, and this is not acceptable within essence. But you may view and you may even leave your mark, so to speak, within their physical dimension, as other dimensions have also left their marks within your physical dimension – landmarks – but they do not interrupt your focus or your reality merely by leaving their landmarks. These are bleed-throughs, which I have stated previously, and these bleed-throughs do not alter your reality. Therefore, they are harmless.

Those which you view to be aliens, extraterrestrials, little gray squashy guys, (grinning) are merely aspects of yourselves that you present to yourselves and appear to you within a manifestation that is familiar and acceptable to you, but in actuality they are not ‘visiting creatures’ from other planets within this particular dimension. They ARE bleed-throughs of other focuses of yourselves within other dimensions, but you shall not find them upon Venus (grinning) unless you are projecting through the veil of dimensions, and in this you may even discover Martians!

FEMALE: ... I have one more. Sometimes when I go away to a conference or something ... I’m very fond of my kitty, Daisy, and I dream sometimes that she’s coming to visit me, and I suspect that she might be projecting to be with me. Is this so?

ELIAS: Absolutely. Creatures are quite accomplished at this action and are quite recognizing of it, for they do not hold the belief systems that you hold. Therefore, they are not bound in the same manner that you bind yourselves. They are quite efficient at projecting. They are also quite efficient at connecting with you within consciousness and accomplishing many aspects of your focus FOR you, in agreement with you!” [session 291, June 26, 1998]

BOBBI: “I had an odd experience. Some people that I related this to thought it might have something to do with an out-of-body experience, which is what we were talking about before. This was back in May.

I was not aware of falling asleep. I was in bed going to sleep, and I felt a vibration. I thought it was the cat scratching itself or the beginnings of an earthquake. This built and built to where I felt as if I had been plugged into an electric socket or something. There was quite a loud roar in my ears. I could not move, though. I kind of was just experiencing this for a while, but it kept gaining in intensity, and it felt like it should be culminating in something. But I got rather nervous and a little alarmed about this, and then it just suddenly quit. I don’t know what to connect this to.

ELIAS: This would be an expression of an experience of a beginnings or an attempt of an out-of-body experience, but the incorporation of an element of fearfulness in the process of moving your subjective awareness away from your physical body consciousness. Therefore, there has also been incorporated a retreating, so to speak, back to the engagement of interaction of subjective awareness to body consciousness.

In this, this type of action is quite common within physical focus. Individuals may hold certain desires at times, so to speak, to be creating of an actual out-of-body experience, but this also incorporates many times an element of fearfulness, for within physical focus, it is an unfamiliar action. You are continuously in communication subjectively with your body consciousness and do not readily separate these elements of consciousness from each other.

BOBBI: So this was the beginning of literally, as you explained it before, an out-of-body experience as opposed to a projection.

ELIAS: Correct.

Now; I shall express to you also that within the incorporation of an out-of-body experience, there may be associated physical sensation, for you shall hold an awareness of an action, in a manner of speaking, of separating. Now, this may not be the expression that is offered to you within your beliefs, that individuals express in the manner of ‘pulling away from your physical body and experiencing the silver cord which is attached to your physical form.’ (Humorously)

But you may experience different elements of physical sensation which shall offer you what you term to be strange sensations or unfamiliar sensations, in that you are disengaging your subjective awareness and direction in its communication from your physical body form, and in this, what you are incorporating is a very similar action to that which you incorporate within your medical procedures, of the removal of a particular physical organ or element of your physical form.

BOBBI: Which would be a very traumatic procedure!

ELIAS: In some manners, you may express this type of explanation to yourself. It need not be, but there is an automatic action in this area that is creating of these types of sensations, and also the response of an element of fear, for as I have stated, within physical focus, this is an unfamiliar action to you. You are quite familiar with creating your reality very much in harmony with these two aspects of your consciousness and not separating them. This is not to say that you may not engage this action, as I have stated, within any moment, for you may, but it is an unfamiliar action within physical focus. Therefore, you shall also be creating of these types of symptoms, so to speak.

I may also express to you that you place in very working order within physical focus a natural system which you may term to be a warning system, for there is a knowing that you may remove your subjective awareness from its communication and interaction with your physical body consciousness for a limited time framework, but within physical terms, you may merely be removing this interaction for a limited time framework. You may not be continuing in that expression, but must be creating of a choice to be continuing within the state, so to speak, of coma or to be disengaging physical focus, for there must be this interaction within the choice to be creating physical manifestation.

Therefore, as you hold this knowing subjectively, you also create an automatic warning system, so to speak, that you are engaging this activity, and you allow yourself an awareness that within physical linear time, you need be holding an awareness of your time framework.

BOBBI: I see. Thank you.

ELIAS: You are quite welcome.” [session 418, July 07, 1999]

PAUL: “I’d like to get your impressions on a dream experience that I had, and again, I did talk to Mary about this. This was what I call an out-of-body experience, and it was what I call a big one, which means from my perception it lasted for quite a long time. I also did not have a lot of objective memory of it, but I have that feeling tone of its duration, which is quite interesting and enjoyable to me. A couple of things happened during that.

One is, I have been doing this for a number of years now, basically merging with objects, walking through walls, diving into floors, breathing the dirt and the grass under the lawn, things like that was one thing that happened. Also in this event, or series of events, as I interpret them, I dove through the window again and got stuck and extracted myself, and concentrated harder and got through. That’s imagery that has appeared before that I’d like you to comment on.

There was a black teenager who I had given a cello lesson to that thanked me. That was one thing, and later on, he reappeared – well, it’s important for later on – where I was at my childhood home in the TV room in the back, sitting on a couch, and a male was there, and I asked him, ‘Are you my guide?’ – and by guide, I mean I was looking for an aspect of self who can provide me with information, and I also called it ‘future Paul’ – and he said he was, and I got extremely excited.

(Vic’s note: here, Mary’s dog starts growling and barking)

I was very excited that I had connected with ‘future Paul’ because I had been attempting to do that for several months, and the thing that he said to me is – I asked him how many focuses I had – ‘I’d like to reduce the number of aspects for now,’ which I interpreted basically as a less is more kind of thing, or simplifying things. But anyway, this is a broader experience that was very significant to me, and I’d appreciate your comments.

ELIAS: This is what we may classify, so to speak, as a projection, and I express to you that you have also allowed yourself to be interactive with an aspect of essence.

Now; let me clarify that this aspect of essence is not necessarily an aspect of you within this focus, for in allowing yourself to be connecting with another aspect of self within this focus – this would also be termed an alternate self – you shall experience some elements of barriers, so to speak, that you shall not be threatening your individual identity. This is a different type of action than you have created in this projection. (4)

In this projection, you have allowed yourself to be encountering another aspect of essence, and as you have allowed yourself to image this aspect of essence, you also are offering yourself information in the direction to not be moving quite so singularly.

Are you understanding?

PAUL: Yes.

ELIAS: This provides you with the opportunity to engage another aspect of essence, which you may incorporate as a trigger, so to speak, to be offering yourself more information and to be offering yourself information of self that shall move you more easily into directions of acceptance of self.

And in this, the aspect of essence is communicating information to you to hold yourself in relaxation, and therefore allow yourself to open to more than you view – more than merely this one aspect, more than singular directions.

You hold a belief that you may not access or acquire information if you are not holding a specific direction, that you need be mapping out, so to speak, a particular direction, and you shall direct yourself in a manner in which you shall engage a particular journey, and therefore you shall offer yourself the information that you seek, and if you are not moving in this type of action, you shall be creating chaos, and in that chaos, you shall not be understanding what you offer to yourself, and therefore you shall not assimilate the information.

What the aspect is expressing to you is not to concern yourself so very intensely with one particular direction, and to relax and allow yourself to merely draw yourself into the information that you shall present yourself with, and you need not hold specifics to be offering yourself much information and much direction.

Are you understanding?

PAUL: Yes, I am. Just one follow-up question. In this particular experience, and in others during the summer when I’ve connected with a person, so to speak, as I image them, they change faces, shall we say. They morph from one aspect into another, and it’s slow, it’s gentle, and I’m very comfortable with it. I’m wondering if this is further imagery to reinforce that nudge to not focus so singularly.

ELIAS: Yes, you are correct.

PAUL: So I should open to that, and go with that, and take it wherever it may take me.

ELIAS: Wherever you are taking yourself! (Grinning)

PAUL: Of course! (They both laugh) Well, thank you so much. This has been marvelous! You’ve given me, as always, a tremendous amount to think about until we meet again.

ELIAS: And we shall!

PAUL: Yes, we shall, old friend.

ELIAS: And you may offer my greetings to Tyl [Joanne], and I shall express encouragement to you on your continued quest. (Laughing)

PAUL: (Laughing) Thank you so much!

ELIAS: You are very welcome. To you, my friend, I offer great affection, and shall be offering energy to you in your movement presently. To you this day, I express quite lovingly, au revoir.

PAUL: Au revoir.” [session 493, October 26, 1999]

PAUL: “I do have one more question about my projection adventures. You’ve mentioned using the inner senses objectively. An example of that is involved with processes that go on in our physical bodies, like digestion or hair growth or our heart beat and breathing, and that’s clear to me, that at least experientially, evidentially ... examples of inner senses in very objective and useful terms.

So, I have a sense of no thought process being involved in my heart beating presently or my breath and so forth. But in out-of-body state, in this projection state, I’m still quite objectively present. I very much have an objective thought process. Are there analogous no-thought aspects of inner senses that are still happening in this state of projection?

ELIAS: Yes. (Pause)

PAUL: Can you give me some further information on those processes that ... of those no-thought processes in terms of inner sensing in that state?

ELIAS: Think to your pond once again. In this, your action of projection is similar to your physical body diving into your pond, and the movement of the water all about you – as an element of you, not as a separate entity – is comparable to the movement of your inner senses as you engage projections, for as you are creating any type of projection activity within consciousness, your inner senses are engaging what you may term to be ‘feelers,’ so to speak, in objective terms, that spread as fingers out from yourself, or ripples through your water, or currents that you create within your water.

And these movements of energy within your inner senses connect with different elements of the action of your projection, allowing you to be engaging different elements of expressions of these inner senses, which offers you more information. You engage empathically, you engage conceptually, and you engage the aspect of altering time frameworks.

PAUL: Thank you. One final question – I just realized I had another one.

In one of the Oversoul Seven books, Grandpa George is a character who experiments with out-of-body states, and he had a technique – and I recognize it’s a method – where he would project, and he would issue a mental command to the environment that he found himself in, of ‘Hallucinations be gone.’ (5)

I wanted to talk a little bit about this condition of what we might term hallucinations that we as a focus personality project into this environment, and also in an attempt to reduce ... well, to make them go away, to get to what is present in the environment that is not just a projection of ourselves, but a projection obviously of other aspects that are inside.

So, I wonder if you would comment on this action of what we project as so-called hallucinations when we do project, and the utility or usefulness of those, and the action perhaps of diminishing them to pursue other activities.

ELIAS: (Chuckling, and Paul laughs) I shall express to you, quite simply, there are no hallucinations!

PAUL: (Cracking up) Oh great! Thank you! (6)

ELIAS: You are quite welcome.” (Chuckling) [session 506, November 24, 1999]

Exercises: viewing alternate realities

Exercises: SNAP – a beginning course in out-of-body projection

Library: lucid dreaming overview

End Notes:

(1) Paul’s note: the concept of “walk-ins” is found in various New Age belief systems. The basic belief is that one personality is born – beginning a lifetime – and at some point a “new” personality takes possession and assumes the primary ego role. The result seems to explain the strong change of personality and loss of memory that some people experience.

Elias attempts to clarify this belief system within the context of human personality as a multidimensional process consisting of a variety of related aspect selves that he terms probable and alternate selves.

Just because people experience significant personality changes and/or inexplicable memory loss doesn't mean that there are intrusive actions of possession or the like foisted upon an individual by a malevolent OR benevolent ''external'' force. This is simply not the case and only serves to perpetuate the beliefs that some external ''thing'' or someone ''else'' creates our reality for us.

ELIAS: “I have begun to express to you elements of body consciousness. I have expressed to you from early on in our session times that your physical expression, your body, is not a vessel! It is a tangible, physical matter expression of essence. It is you. It holds its own consciousness, for each cell holds its own independent consciousness. Each atom holds its own individual consciousness. Within cooperation, it creates a collective consciousness which becomes your body consciousness. You, as a focus of essence, hold consciousness beyond the physical manifestation of body consciousness, but are intimately involved with this consciousness. You direct the consciousness and function of your physical expression; your body.

You are not another focus, but you may experience another focus. Another focus holds a body consciousness of its own, but you may experience an exchange and you may experience another focus in its totality. You may merge totally to another focus and experience another focus, as it may do likewise also.

I have also expressed that you intersect alternate selves. I have expressed that you may exchange with alternate selves. You may accomplish a certain time period within a focus and you may exchange with an alternate self, which shall continue the focus as you continue otherwise. How is this possible if your body consciousness is only your body consciousness? Here we come to unofficial information.

You view yourselves as one entity. You view yourselves as one mind, one body. You are not! You view your consciousness as one thinking mind, one thought process. You are countless thought processes. Each focus is not one entity. The air within this room occupies one space. It is not one entity. In like manner, you focus within one material expression physically, but your consciousness is not singular. Your physical body expression resonates to the tone of you, of one focus; not to the entirety of essence, but to the individual focus; for each focus is a new creation. It has been always, but it is new. We do not deal with used material!

Your body consciousness recognizes your beingness. Your body consciousness also recognizes that your focus beingness is an aspect of your essence and will also identify with all other aspects of essence. Therefore, within essence you may exchange temporarily between focuses.

Each focus is as the air within this room; myriads of aspects, countless elements of personality cooperating to create one focus. This allows for all of your alternate selves. These may exchange with an individual focus. However, another focus may not exchange with you. You may temporarily intersect and experience, but you may not ‘take over.’

You have asked much time ago of your concept of walk-ins; another entity which ‘walks into you,’ therefore assuming your physical expression and continuing for you as you dissipate into the cosmos! Which, we do not know of where you shall be dissipating to, but the new entity shall be ‘taking over’ your physical form. This does not happen! Underline! You may not assume another focus, for it is not you, although it is you! (Confused laughter) You may temporarily intersect, merge, experience another focus, just as they may temporarily merge with you and experience. In this mergence, you are unaware of this presence. You do not lose you, as they do not lose themselves.

If you are exchanging with another focus, you may merge into the experience of another focus. You may empathically be another focus. Aspects of your focus shall merge. This in reality you may consider, in your terms, a physical act. Your consciousness shall merge into this other individual. They may feel odd or strangely, but they also will continue to feel themselves. You shall hold an awareness, as if you are this focus. This may occur temporarily. You may not assume another focus. As you are all focuses of one essence, mergences may occur. The tone is close enough, in your terms, that each individual body consciousness shall temporarily be accepting of this mergence; temporarily.

Alternate selves hold almost entirely the same tone as what you understand of yourself. That self which you identify as you has countless alternate selves which are also you. You only identify one you, but just as you identify one air within one space, there are myriads of particles that are making up of this space. These alternates may exchange places with you, in your terms, for their tone will not be interrupting of your body consciousness. Another essence merging with you will be recognized by your body consciousness; and has been stated previously, your physical response within your body, to placing what you term to be foreign objects within it, shall be rejection. Your body and its consciousness holds its own awareness and responds to you.

This is not to say that an exchange with another essence may not occur ... obviously! [Paul’s note: refering to his interaction with Mary Ennis] (Laughter) Within agreement, an exchange may occur with another essence, but the body consciousness recognizes this exchange and is partially rejecting of this exchange. Physical elements occur, for the body consciousness realizes the essence occupying and directing ... We shall more express directing, for the essence does not float in and float out! But the body is recognizing of the direction and tone, which is different. Therefore, its response is to be rejecting of this. It will not reject alternates. It will not reject temporary exchange of other focuses of essence. It will be rejecting of another essence exchange. (Vic’s note: this must be why Mary experiences unexplainable physical symptoms and affectingness.) This is part of unofficial information. In all of its aspects, you may experience exchange or intersection with alternates or with another focus, and you may experience emotional changes, thought changes, action changes, that you do not understand. They shall be temporary, in your view, but you shall notice.” [session 147, January 12, 1997]

Digests: follow these links for more information on:
aspects of essence | essence; an overview | focus of essence; an overview.

(2) Vic’s note: in Elias’ terms, we have created senility/Alzheimer’s as an action of engaging transition physically, and because we are presently changing this mass belief system, a “cure” will be found in the near future.

(3) Paul’s note: as I’ve been experimenting with out-of-body experiences since 1979, I’m including my notes for reference.

From my dream journal, dated Friday, March 13, 1998, 8:12 AM.

Focusing my intent to have an out-of-body experience this evening, (recorded at 12:24 AM.) I went to bed @8:30 PM. I had enjoyed a couple glasses of wine before bed, listened to a Monroe Insititute hemi-sync tape (The Heart Agenda), and fell asleep. I woke up feeling very mild vibrations again. It feels like my consciousness is phase shifting from one frequency of awareness to another. I must have awakened ever so slightly after two sleep cycles. I repeated my affirmation, “Now I am out of body!” and that helped to initiate the separation state. I felt the gentle vibrations begin for just a couple of seconds at the base of my neck and then spread down my entire back all the way to my feet. There is a definite awareness at the nape of the neck (medulla oblongata region.) They thicken in a way as I move into my “first" energy state. I seem to move through an “energy membrane" of some sort as I shift conscious frequencies that I perceive as some sort of vibrations.

I then sat up in the bed in my “astral body" form but wasn’t sure what to do. I realized that I had to deal with my fear of the unknown issue and lack of focus issue, so I concentrated on visiting Mary Ennis in Vermont. Then I sat up a second time and finally separated out and threw my legs onto the floor just like in objective focus and stood up. This second effort was very smooth and effortless, not jerky at all. My body was in the bed with Joanne next to me.

I then walked around the bed room. It was dark. I went over to where the mirrored doors are and there was “other” furniture there, more like my childhood bed room, Uncle Arthur’s model ship was there. I passed my right arm through the glass case and the body of the ship but was able to make the sails move vigorously. I thought that if Jo had been watching, she’d have witnessed the sails moving invisibly without seeing my body. This is almost like manipulating the higher frequency energy of the ship so that the denser, objective matter that is also an aspect of this “ship" would move. This would be an interesting set of experiments.

I walked out of the bedroom door to the piano in the living room. I played one key and it made a loud sustained sound. So I “unstuck" the key because I thought it might disturb Jo. It was located in the same location in reference to its physical counterpart. I realize now that I should have just sat down and played it. This could be an entire thread of experimentation in regards to my piano playing. I could actually attempt to “practice” and see how it impacts my kinesthetic motor control physically. That is the next step in my developing piano technique. I’ve been practicing Keith Emerson’s Trilogy for the past four weeks and I’m progressing nicely. There are lots of multi-octave arpeggios and my next steps is to play them faster and more smoothly connected.

I went back into the bed room and concentrated on reaching Mary Ennis. Using the window on the right side of the bed where Jo lay sleeping as a focal point, I then dove forward through it. I really was ignoring both of our bodies in the bed, this would be an interesting series of experiments also as observing the physical body from this region. Anyway, on this first attempt I got stuck half in and half out, right in the wall! I instantly knew that I hadn’t focused my intent strongly enough. Innocent “mistake" I realized. So I pulled myself back in, took a couple of steps backward, then took a running, more intensely focused leap “through” the window into an urban setting. I immediately saw a black man who was a painter standing in the street, painting at night under a street light, which I found unusual. He had a beautiful attitude/vibe and was very artistic. I really liked him. There were 4-5 story apartments around and people, all black, were watching TV or eating dinner. I realized that I could observe them if I wished but had no interest in doing so. In hindsight this morning I feel that this man is most likely a painter that Mary has connected with in Vermont and the “city" environment is more related to him and his background than anything else in Brattleboro.

I then concentrated on Mary again, and began flying eastward and into sunlight which really got me excited (as all of the previous scenarios had occurred in the dark.) I thought this is really cool how this works, it’s night time in Castaic, California but as I travel East, I travel into the sun. I luxuriated in the feeling of warmth on my arms, and the general brightness. (Since this occurred at sometime between 12:00 AM. and 12:22 AM. it wouldn’t be light in the East yet.) So this is just my own way of creating a comfortable feeling for myself. Next time all I need do is think “create light now!” and it’ll illuminate the room or any environment for me. Also, I should remind myself to take notice of the clock on Jo’s dresser to get a bearing to check when I return.

The next environment was, I assume, a college walk way. There were dozens of college aged people walking on various paths. I stood directly in front of a very plain looking college-aged woman. She couldn’t see me, but paused sensing my presence. I stepped aside and she continued. I had this feeling that there were other dimensional beings present who were in a similar phase shift like me, but there were so many people I couldn’t really tell who was in my state and who wasn’t. In hindsight, I realize that I could meet focuses that aren’t humanoid and that is another fear I need to address. For example, if a half cheetah/human appeared I need to realize that the only fear or bad that exists is of my own creation.

Finally, there was an immature college male that was going back and forth between the people who were walking. I realize now in hindsight that this was probably an “other dimensional focus” who was also present in parallel with me (a counterpart?) but we never connected directly. His actions were actually amusing to me as he seemed to revel in his ability to run in and out of the flow of walking people without disturbing them but still observing them. I grew uneasy as I realized that there were “others” who were observing me. This unsettled me because I couldn’t “see" them. I then woke up at 12:22 AM. and mulled over the experience and evaluated it before rising at 12:32 AM. to find my tape recorder which was in my studio because I am still in the process of transcribing my journals from the Fall and Winter.

A note added later; when I described this experience to Mary, in mid-March when she returned briefly to Castaic to get her belongings and complete her move to Brattleboro, Vermont, she thought that I had connected with the local college there and with a woman named Dianne who is a psychologist and had attended a Vermont public session.

Personally, I feel no need to verify how direct a match my version of the college walk way maps to its physical counterpart, or how my version of Dianne maps to the physical version. I know how intensely I was concentrating on visiting Mary in Brattleboro without be instrusive to Mary’s privacy. The fact of my experience that I “landed” on the college campus walk way (which also happens to be where Mary and Forrest were holding public sessions at the time) is proof enough to me. Some day when I visit Mary in Brattleboro I will check out the university and see how it maps to my feelings of this experience.

(4) Paul’s note: Elias makes an interesting distinction here based upon another experience that I had discussed with him in October 1997 and again in March 1999. He said that I connected with an alternate self at that time.

Here are the excerpts from my discussions about Manson, an alternate self:

PAUL: “Another dream experience that happened recently, a very lucid experience where I get this tingling, a crystal clear tingling in my forehead, as objective as I am now perceiving you. I asked Caroll [Paul], not using that name, to present him/her/itself, and a focus appeared, and I got the name ‘Manson.’ It was a fairly average-looking male, older than me, and I was very excited to see this appear. I tried to engage it in verbal communication and my throat constricted, and I realized that I was attempting to communicate in a way that was not as efficient or appropriate, and I choked on it and I woke up and I was really frustrated. I guess my question is, I had asked to connect with a future focus – that’s one of my little games I play with myself – and I’m wondering if this ‘Manson’ aspect is a future focus, and if you could comment on the type of communication I was attempting and not quite succeeding at?

ELIAS: There are two elements to this intersection; one being that you have presented yourself with a future focus, which is not a focus in your linear terms yet, for presently it is an aspect of this focus. It is a future focus simultaneously, but within your time thickness and your linear time designations, it also is an aspect of this present focus; an alternate self. Therefore, you experience difficulty in communication with this alternate self, for you create a barrier. This would be your barrier that you have created between these two aspects of this focus, in like manner to Michael’s [Mary’s] viewing of an alternate self, but not holding the ability to penetrate a field to touch the other aspect, creating a barrier between the two. Communication was allowed, but no contact was allowed, for a veil was placed between, for this is a slightly different action than intersecting with another focus. If allowing yourself to be connecting with this same aspect, which IS the other focus, you shall be more successful. If pursuing connecting or intersecting with this aspect as an aspect of you presently, you shall be experiencing slight difficulties, but you may be accomplishing if you are choosing to be pursuing this area.

PAUL: You mentioned certain parts of the experience not being allowed. That implies other essences that I’m....

ELIAS: Incorrect! Absolutely incorrect. It is not allowed by yourself, for it may be threatening to your individual identity, for this aspect is also you and not separate from you.

VICKI: Can I ask a question about that? So to go to the analogy of the tree and the branches and the leaves, this interaction could be viewed as a leaf? Is this correct?

(Vic’s note: this is in reference to Elias’ analogy of essence as a tree. Basically, he said that we could view a tree as essence, the branches as focuses of essence, the leaves as alternate selves and probable selves and splinters, and the seeds that fall to the ground as fragments, which then become an entirely new tree, but holding all the same qualities as the first tree.)

ELIAS: Correct.

VICKI: But you also said that within the context of a time thickness, it is also a future focus?

ELIAS: Correct.

VICKI: So does the leaf then turn into a branch?

ELIAS: They are connected. The leaf and the branch exist simultaneously, but they are different. They are both elements of the tree, but they occupy different positions; the branch being the focus, the leaf being the alternate. They are existing simultaneously. They are connected. They hold different functions and capacities. It would be as the leaf fading in and out, being an element of the branch, but then appearing as the leaf, then appearing as an element of the branch, and leaving ghost trails of the leaf.

VICKI: So I would imagine that this particular explanation of this action wouldn’t apply to all of what we consider alternate selves?

ELIAS: No. (Intently) Within each focus, as I have expressed, you hold myriads of alternate selves. They are not necessarily focuses. They are aspects of you, but you view yourselves so very singularly that you view yourselves as occupying one physical body with one thought process, with one mind, with one everything, but you are not. You are myriads of you’s within each focus; and within certain actions and probabilities, you may be choosing to be creating a focus of an alternate you, which is within simultaneous time already, but also is as you within an alternate self. Therefore, you may be interacting with them each individually, although they are the same. But within the choice of which direction you focus your attention and choose to be intersecting, if you are choosing to be intersecting with another focus, this is not quite as threatening to your individual identity within this particular focus, for you view within your belief systems that you may understand that another focus is an aspect of you, but holds its own integrity and is not you. Within an alternate, this does not exist. This alternate IS you. It is the same as you, for it is another aspect of you.

Just as you do not divide your emotional qualities from yourself and assign that they are different entities. You may be feeling joy or you may be feeling sadness, and these exist within you as elements of you. You do not separate them out and express, ‘This individual here is sadness; it walks beside me. This individual here is joyfulness; it walks beside me. I am neither of these entities, for these are separate elements of me and they are removed into separate entities.’ You do not view yourself in this manner. In the same respect, you may not separate alternates either. They are you; but in confronting yourself with an alternate, it is the same as popping out of yourself one singular emotion and creating another entity and facing yourself with this other you, which may not be separated out. You objectively image another image, another form, for this is what you understand, but this image is not another form. It is you.

In this, this be the reason that you hold the threat of identity in viewing an alternate where you do not feel quite such a threat of individual identity in intersecting with another focus, for you do hold limited understanding that another focus is not you.

(Vic’s note: Oh, I get it now!)

PAUL: So it was my fear of losing individuality when confronting myself right here that kept me from communicating with myself?

ELIAS: And completely intersecting. This is common. You may, if choosing to be pursuing this avenue and this intersection, you may be accomplishing in this, although this shall require more practice than would be necessary within intersection of another focus.” [session 224, October 01, 1997]

PAUL: “... I have another follow-up question then. In October of 1997, we talked about an experience of mine, an out-of-body, where I connected with what I believe you termed at that time as an alternate future self. I did get a name of Manson and a very clear visual, but I had difficulty communicating and talking. So my question is, is that focus that I connected with in that experience, is that one of the focuses that’s probably holding a dissimilar tone? Because it was difficult for me to communicate. Is that correct?

ELIAS: No. Although you held difficulty in communication, you did not hold difficulty in accessing.

Many times you may experience difficulty in your actual objective communication and interaction with another focus. You are crossing what you may term to be barriers – time dimensions – and therefore you are engaging different layers of consciousness, and translations need be placed in order, in a manner of speaking. Therefore, you shall be experiencing certain elements of difficulty if you are attempting to be objectively interacting with the other individual.

Be remembering, this other individual IS another individual, but is also simultaneously you.

Therefore, this creates a difficulty, for engaging other focuses of essence within physical focus may disrupt your identity temporarily, as I have expressed previously. Therefore, there are barriers that you have created within physical focus to be preventing this action of confusing your individual identity.

In this, a focus which holds a slightly different tone from yourself ... you shall hold difficulty in accessing objective awareness of them at all.” [session 377, March 23, 1999]

(5) Paul’s note: the character “Grandpa George” Brainbridge is from Oversoul Seven and the Museum of Time, Jane Roberts’s Oversoul Seven trilogy. George is a late 19th century dentist who uses nitrous oxide (laughing gas) to explore out-of-body states.

The following excerpts were in the back of my mind when I asked this question about the action of “hallucinations” within the out-of-body state:

“Without thinking about it, Seven hallucinated a pipe for George, who didn’t realize that he was still in his dream body; then Seven said moodily, “I’ve got to think my way out of this because your grandson – he must be your grandson – needs me and I don’t even know what trouble he’s in.”

“Ah,” said George, dreamily.

“Ah?” said Seven, a bit loudly. “A lot of help you are; sniffing gas and hallucinating demons and God knows what....” [Chapter 2, pg. 436]

And later ...

“The room was the same, but again the furniture was different. Soft lights emerged from the ceiling, though George couldn’t see their source. A group of people, looking as if they were on a trip, stood looking at the room in which he stood. There were ohs and ahs, but no one saw him. Was he hallucinating all this? George wondered. “Let all hallucinations vanish,” he commanded mentally, with more confidence than he felt.

“Nothing happened. George gasped; if he was right, then the people and room would have vanished if he were creating them himself. So he must have outdone himself. But where was he, and what was going on?” [Chapter 13, pg. 509]

(6) Paul’s note: you never know what direction Elias will take during a session. Usually he builds on previous concepts and interactions. However, he occasionally goes into what I perceive to be “the Zen of Elias.” By that, I mean Elias will use paradox and/or contradiction in the form of unexpected responses. These nudge and even force the rational mind into a non-rational area, as the rational mind alone can never provide ALL of the answers. The initial results are intentional confusion that eventually give way to further understanding.

I had covered mostly rational ground to this point in the session, and the moment he went into that “there are no ...” direction, it made me belly-laugh, as I am beginning to recognize the intent behind an unexpected response. Still, Elias’ timing was perfect. I was caught off-guard and fumbling for another question to ask. He immediately ended the session as if to emphasize this “final” exchange. And I must say, it made quite an impression on me as a reminder of those times when I think too much.

Digests – see also: | accepting self | altered states/projections of consciousness | alternate selves | aspects of essence; an overview | belief systems; an overview | bleed-through | blinking in and out | choices/agreements | dimension | dimensional veils | disengage (“death”) | dream triggers | Dream Walkers; an overview | duplicity | feeling tones | energy exchanges; Elias, Paul (Patel) | essence; an overview | essence families; an overview (Seers) | essence tones | extraterrestrials | fear | focus of essence; an overview | focal points | imagery | information | inner senses; an overview | “karma” | manifestation | mergence | objective/subjective awareness | Oversoul Seven | perception | Regional Area 1 | Regional Area 2 | Regional Area 3 | remembrance of essence | shift in consciousness | time frameworks | transition | trauma of the shift in consciousness | truth | unofficial information | widening awareness | you create your reality |

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