Wednesday, November 26, 2003
ďCommunication with a Partner Who Has Dis-EngagedĒ
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Luana (Ring).
(Arrival time is 20 seconds.)
ELIAS: Good morning!
LUANA: Good morning, Elias. Nice to talk to you again.
ELIAS: And you, also.
LUANA: So, as youíre probably aware, my partner and best friend and many other things has crossed over, as they say. Iíve got some questions regarding that. I think Iím just going to kind of let it flow this morning. This happened about six or seven weeks ago, and when I first called Mary about the appointment, of course I was all stirred up with things.
I want to tell you, first off, Iíve read the digest on transition and disengagement and other processes along this line, Regional Areas 3 and 4. Iím kind of caught up on things. In the beginning, when I read what you had to say about this, it rather much disturbed me, because here I am still very much attached and grieving and going through this process. When I read what you had to say about the person moving into their multiple focuses and all that, I felt as if I was really losing more. Since that time, Iíve had more clarity about it and I want to ask you some questions this morning, a little bit more in-depth, about the transition process and afterwards.
ELIAS: Very well.
LUANA: One of the things I would really like to discuss, and I read last night a transcript of you working with a person named David, that there is the ability to do more in-depth communication, particularly after the Shift has happened, that thereís to be far more ability to communicate with people who have crossed over, on the other side. So, part of what Iíd like to ask today is where Jim is in the transition. If and when, if he chooses to do so, this might be a possibility of getting more depth of what his process is and whatís happening to him in more of a direct sense, rather than going through a nonphysical messenger or somebody from the other side. Iíd just kind of like to get an overview first about the possibilities of more of a direct knowing with Jim.
ELIAS: Very well. Let me first of all offer clarification to you. I am aware of what you have presented to yourself in association with information that I have offered, but that is incomplete.
Now; in this, there are many different directions and experiences that may occur subsequent to the choice of disengagement, depending upon the individual, their beliefs and their position, so to speak, at the time in which they choose to disengage. Some individuals choose to be engaging transition to a considerable extent within the time framework that they are continuing to be within physical focus.
Now; generally speaking, although this also is not a rule, an individual that has been generating the action of transition within physical focus, dependent upon the extent of that transition within physical focus, the individual may move directly into the full extent of nonphysical transition, shedding beliefs and shedding the objective awareness immediately subsequent to what you term as death. But this does not always occur. There are, as I have stated, many different avenues that may be engaged, and some of those avenues do not involve transition immediately following death. As I have stated, it is dependent upon the person and their direction and their beliefs at the time in which they disengage.
LUANA: Can you fill me in on what Jimís process is Ė has been and is?
ELIAS: Yes. (Slight pause) This individual is not yet engaging the action of transition.
Now; as to the implication of that in relation to yourself, this allows a window in which you may continue to engage that individualís energy.
LUANA: What is the best way for me to do that, knowing both of our personalities? (Pause)
ELIAS: You may engage that energy in familiar actions that have been engaged between the two of you previously, and you may begin to sense the other individualís energy and its presence. You may allow yourself interaction in dream state, or you may allow yourself in waking state, in certain time frameworks in which you relax your energy and allow an openness to the other individualís energy, to be receiving. As you engage that energy and become more familiar with the different configuration of it rather than in a physical manifestation, there may be more and more of an allowance for you to be actually interactive.
LUANA: Is either out-of-body or Ė and I think Iíve explained to you before Ė direct writing where Iím waking up at four oíclock in the morning and just beginning to write things out, is either one of those two ways at ease with us, to do this?
ELIAS: Yes, and quite viable.
LUANA: Iíve read that one of the ways to enhance it is for me to speed up my vibratory rate while at the same time Jim slows his down. Is this true?
ELIAS: That is one method, although it is not necessary.
LUANA: Iíve been told by a person who does channeling that the material rubber, which I sleep on... I sleep on a latex bed at nighttime, and Iíve been trying to do some either out-of-body work or dream work with Jim during this period and have not been very successful at it. Is rubber truly a hindrance for making these connections?
LUANA: Thatís a belief system?
ELIAS: That is a belief.
LUANA: So itís not a problem?
LUANA: So any of these potential ways can open this portal door, so to speak, to have an intercommunication, a direct communication with Jim?
ELIAS: Yes. Let me express to you, this individual is continuing to express an objective awareness and is continuing to generate imagery, physical imagery. Therefore, in his perception Ė for perception is an objective mechanism Ė he is continuing participating in physical focus, and the physical manifestation of yourself and of familiar manifestations are continuing to be projected. The difference is that your energy or any other energy of any other individual that he is generating, that he is projecting, is not actually participating directly in his creation, which he is not aware of yet.
LUANA: He is not aware of that yet?
ELIAS: Correct. In his awareness presently, he is continuing to directly interact with your energy, for he is not entirely aware yet that he has chosen death.
LUANA: Two days ago I was dealing with a lot of problems, experiences Iíd guess youíd call them, and my energy was kind of flagging. Out loud I asked him to, if possible, give me some energy. It seemed like yesterday and the day before, having so much to do, and Iíve got a back problem, too, that my energy level picked up tremendously. I thought to myself, even a few days before that, one of Jimís wonderful qualities was his helpfulness and giving energy to people. I wondered is this either from him or something Iíve made up myself or is he able to participate with me at that level?
LUANA: Was this him helping me?
Now; understand that his reality presently is different from what you are generating. But as he is continuing to generate an objective awareness and he is continuing to generate physical manifestations, there already is a window that is open, so to speak, that allows bleed-throughs of your energy to him, and his energy to you.
LUANA: Do you have insight into how long this window is going to last with him and me?
ELIAS: This is dependent upon his choices and it is dependent upon what time framework he engages prior to his awareness that he is actually generating all of his imagery and that there is not an actual participation of other individuals. Eventually, that awareness does become clear to the individual.
LUANA: Heís rather much in something like a dream state, when heís interacting with me? Itís as if my physical world here is somewhat like a dream to him?
ELIAS: No. But let me offer an example. Within your physical reality, you may be generating an interaction with another individual and you may be experiencing some frustration or conflict or anxiety. In that moment, you may choose to be expressing objectively a request for supportiveness or strength in energy.
LUANA: From that person?
ELIAS: To him.
Now; that is your scenario. In HIS reality, which he is generating solely himself, he may be interacting with his projection of you and perhaps, in his scenario, you may be engaging the action of taking tea together. In his scenario, as there is this window, he may experience or feel an energy from his projection of you and therefore generate a scenario in which suddenly his projection of you, or his image of you, may be expressing tearfulness.
Now; his responsiveness to that imagery shall be to be supportive, as an automatic response. His awareness of what is occurring is that his experiences are proceeding normally, although at times there may be some unusual actions that occur, unpredicted experiences with his projections of you. Are you understanding thus far?
LUANA: Iím understanding most of that, yes.
ELIAS: Now; the response moves through layers of consciousness and is actually projected to you, physically. But his awareness of what he is actually generating is quite different than what is actually occurring. You feel the supportiveness, you feel the energy, and you allow yourself to apply that energy with yourself, in your scenario, in your reality, and he is unaware that the projection that he has created of you is not actually being created through a direct participation of you.
LUANA: I presume that Jim was oriented more toward feelings. Is my inner communication with him better through this mode rather than through thought or kinesiology or some other sense, or is he open and available when I am trying to connect with him on many different levels?
LUANA: Feeling just being one of them?
LUANA: Very good. Totally different information than I thought. Is it possible for us to communicate or for me to receive on a verbal level with him?
LUANA: Is it possible for us to have communication in-depth at this time?
ELIAS: Yes. And in actually, it is even possible for you to generate the physical image of him.
LUANA: In my present circumstance, is this the image of where he is now rather than something Iím making up in my imagination or from the past?
ELIAS: Let me express to you first of all the reminder that imagination is quite real. It is another avenue of communication. It is not fantasy. And let me also express to you a reminder, you create all of your reality. Therefore, you create ALL of the imagery associated with your reality. When you interact with another individual in any scenario, what you are directly interacting with is an energy projection of that individual, but YOU create the actual physical manifestation of the other individual. And you may generate that with this individual also.
Now; I am understanding, in association with beliefs, that generating the actual physical manifestation of the other individual is much more challenging now, for you generate beliefs that once an individual has died they are no longer present and you are no longer directly interacting with their energy projections, which is not entirely true. But beliefs are strong, and in that expressed belief it becomes much more challenging to configure that energy which is being projected into an actual physical form. But it IS quite possible.
LUANA: Is it also possible to bring up an image of him that is still him but is not his physical body form that he had while he was here?
LUANA: Like a symbol of him of some sort?
ELIAS: Yes. Which at times individuals do choose to engage that type of imagery rather than the familiar physical imagery, for it is, in a manner of speaking, easier and less challenging in association with expressed beliefs.
LUANA: Iím understanding that. This is all very helpful. Thank you very much!
ELIAS: You are quite welcome.
LUANA: There are so many things here; let me see. One of the things I wanted to ask you about is taking consciousness into dreamless sleep. Is it possible for me to do that and to travel to Regional Area 3 instead of having Jim come here? Is it possible for me to go there?
LUANA: Iím aware a lot of times when Iím sleeping that I have been active in my sleep but not from dreaming, not imagery with dreaming. I presume I and we do that not only during sleep but perhaps at other times too, that we actually can disengage ourselves from our physical being and travel and interact with other essences or energies or tones or whatever, during sleep-time when we are not actually dreaming. Is this true?
LUANA: If I do do that, am I entering the nonphysical realm of like, turning my attention to what you call Regional Area 4?
ELIAS: You may.
LUANA: When you are there and you donít have a physical form, Seth talked about sometime when he was... No, not Seth, Oversoul Seven and Cypress were traveling together in this journey in the book, and Jane Roberts used the imagery of them being like a spark or a point of light that was sitting, for instance, on a curtain rod or sitting inside of a picture or something, when they were conversing. Is that how your existence is or how my existence would be if I were interacting with you or Jim or other nonphysical essences?
ELIAS: Figuratively. That is a translation that you may understand within your physical reality, but figuratively, yes.
LUANA: What if I said to you, non-figuratively what is it like? (Pause)
ELIAS: There is tremendous challenge in attempting to explain nonphysical interaction to you within physical focus, for all that you understand is filtered through what you know in physical reality. In nonphysical areas of consciousness in which you interact, there is no form, there is no emotion, there is no thought, for these are all associated with physical reality. There is movement; there is awareness; there is knowing; there is action.
LUANA: This ďknowingĒ that you talk about, I think I finally understand what love is, and you can correct me if Iím wrong on this. I finally sort of grasp that what love is, because you gave me a definition of love as being both appreciation and knowing...
LUANA: ...and a couple of days ago it finally dawned on me what this knowing is; itís what I call intimacy. Itís a knowing at a really deep level. Is this correct?
LUANA: I think thatís my driving thing with getting in touch with Jim, because we had this extremely complex relationship. One of the things that I really miss about our relationship is that I donít have this intimacy. The intimacy wasnít just at an emotional level, thereís also at a knowing level, a deep knowing level of another individual, of each other.
LUANA: Also, when youíre talking about this knowingness without thought or feeling, the closest word I can come to that is really itís a direct knowing, kind of like intuition, you just know that you know.
LUANA: Thatís what youíre talking about?
ELIAS: Yes. There are many expressions within your existence, so to speak, that are examples of knowing. Knowing is a genuine lack of doubt and a genuine confidence and not questioning. As an example, this is the difference between expectations and knowing, a very simple example. As you approach a door and you place your hand upon the door handle and you turn the handle and you push the door open, it opens. You know it will open.
LUANA: Itís sort of like a trust, in a way, without thinking about the trust.
ELIAS: Correct. It is a knowing, and therefore you merely create. When you encounter another individualís energy, you automatically know you have engaged the individualís energy and you immediately configure that energy into a form. You do not question this; you do not engage thought or emotional communication concerning this action. You merely know and you do.
LUANA: Thatís basically how we create all of our perceptions out here.
LUANA: We donít think about it or kind of rummage around in our head and paint the pictures real fast. They just appear because we know they will.
ELIAS: Correct! And this is the reason that I express to all of you so frequently that you know much more than you realize that you know.
LUANA: I think sometimes the word ďknowĒ is a little bit obscuring, because to us, me, knowing usually involves knowledge, which is different than the knowing that youíre talking about.
LUANA: This is connected to the conceptual inner sense?
LUANA: And probably the other senses, also?
ELIAS: Correct, but let me also clarify. Knowing is somewhat an expression of knowledge, but not in the definition of knowledge that you incorporate. For you incorporate the definition of knowledge as being acquired through learning, and this knowledge is inherent. It merely is.
LUANA: Is it true always that disengagement happens when value fulfillment or intention is achieved by the individual? (Pause)
ELIAS: (Chuckles) This is a tricky question! For in one manner, I may express the response of yes, but there are no absolutes and death is a choice.
LUANA: In the now?
ELIAS: Correct. And in that choice, if I express to you yes, value fulfillment is always accomplished at the moment of death, that would be misleading. For that implies that all individuals are discontinuing the expression of value fulfillment, and therefore as cause and effect they die, which is not necessarily what may be generated. An individual may incorporate a potential to continue expressing their value fulfillment within physical focus but choose to disengage. That is not to say that there is no more value fulfillment for them to be expressing.
LUANA: In Jimís case, I presume that... Okay, let me go back a little bit. Seth made the statement that we choose our birth and we choose our disengagement before we arrive.
LUANA: Did you say ďnoĒ?
ELIAS: I did.
LUANA: Ah, so that is a distortion. Because I thought what happened was that while that may be true Ė Jim and I talked about this a lot Ė you still have, even though you may have kind of designated a particular time or action of disengagement, that you would still have the choice on a day by day or minute by minute basis of when you would choose to disengage.
The reason Iím bringing this up is Jim said from the minute we met that he knew he would die at sixty-eight years old. I said to him over the years as I was passing on information to him that I didnít think that was true, that I thought that even though he might have an intuition about it, he should have a choice about it. He finally, towards the last year or two of his life, decided that he would have a choice about it and decided that he wanted to not die at sixty-eight, he wanted to live longer, like his father did to ninety-two years old.
ELIAS: I may express to you, an individual may move in a direction of expressing to themselves that they wish to disengage at a particular time framework, and they may or may not necessarily generate that choice. For every moment is a choice, and were you to be designating an absolute time in which you would be born or in which you would disengage, this negates choice and denies free will.
LUANA: And creativity.
LUANA: In my own case, even though I have felt for a long time and said to myself I think Iím probably going to pass over at seventy-eight years old, that may be somewhat of a ďmakie-upĒ that Iím making myself Ė or it may be actually what I say to myself before I assumed a physical body, but itís not set in stone, so to speak.
ELIAS: Correct. And you may actually generate that, but that is not a communication to yourself with respect to intuition. It is not a prediction. It is not a communication that you are offering to yourself as an absolute or precognitive. It is a theory that you may generate and a concept that you may play with, but it is not a precognitive prediction, so to speak.
Now; if at that timeframe work you choose to be disengaging, that would be your choice in the moment. It was not a choice that was predicted.
LUANA: The choice comes from the objective self only?
LUANA: If youíre not really aware of the subjective awarenessís communications to you, it might come as a total surprise to you that youíve disengaged when you think you really had no intention of doing that at all.
ELIAS: No. Let me express to you, in the moment that you choose disengagement by whatever method you choose, the objective awareness is aware of that choice also, in the moment.
LUANA: At the moment of the disengagement?
LUANA: But not beforehand maybe?
ELIAS: That is dependent upon the individual and how intimately they are aware of themselves and their communications. But let me remind you, the choice of disengagement is a choice in the moment. You may be generating a manifestation that, in association with mass beliefs or even your own beliefs which are expressed, appears to you to be a lethal experience. You may be choosing to create a dis-ease that is known to you Ė figuratively speaking in the term of ďknownĒ Ė rather believed to you and to your society to be incurable and that its outcome is ultimately and always death, and you may choose in a moment not to be creating death. You may be engaging an experience in which you are lethally assaulted by another individual and choose not to disengage.
LUANA: Iíve read quite a bit on this, the transition that can happen after disengaging from the physical body, but it can also happen, and is happening, during the Shift.
ELIAS: With some individuals.
LUANA: Yes. In doing so, if I choose to work with the processes of transition while I am still in my physical body, when I cross over do I have a better chance at being able to realize my own disengagement and not get caught up maybe in the imagery, and move through the transitional time faster or better, more efficiently?
ELIAS: You are actually engaging several questions in this question.
Now; I may express to you first of all that engaging transition within physical focus does not necessarily offer you a clearer awareness of disengaging prior to the choice, and the point in that is not a matter of transition or not generating transition but that that particular choice, as with all choices, is created in the moment regardless of the surrounding imagery.
Now; as to the action of transition itself within physical focus, engaging the action of transition generates a movement into an awareness of a lack of separation.
Now; that facilitates the action of transition once the individual has disengaged. But be aware, as I have stated previously in this conversation, that is dependent upon the individual and how extensively the individual is engaging that action of transition within physical focus. For, some individuals may be engaging transition within physical focus, and subsequent to their disengagement, they may be generating quite similarly to your partner and not continuing the process of transition nonphysically for a time framework. It is dependent upon the individual.
Now; if we say that an individual is engaging transition to an extent within physical focus, generally speaking yes, that individual shall move directly into the action of nonphysical transition in which the scenario that you engaged in reading in the transcriptions would be more accurate. The individual would be shedding the beliefs associated with this physical reality. They would be shedding the objective awareness, for it is not necessary within nonphysical expressions of consciousness, and they would be entirely dropping the veils of separation associated with your physical reality. Therefore, they would be incorporating an awareness of ALL of their focuses and ALL of their experiences within their participation of this physical reality.
LUANA: Now, is this true only if this is the final focus?
ELIAS: No. It matters not whether the individual is a designated final focus, beginning focus or continuing focus. Those are merely designations of positions of attentions. But each individual manifestation is unique and continues in whatever direction it chooses once it has disengaged its participation in this physical manifestation within this physical dimension.
LUANA: See, I had mistakenly thought that the only time that you really shed all of your beliefs and move into nonphysical is when you are in your final focus, otherwise you would be contemplating taking an aspect of yourself and remanifesting, somehow or other. But thatís not necessarily true.
ELIAS: Correct, for you do not remanifest.
LUANA: Well, I understand that. But Iím using those terms because Iím stuck here. (Both laugh)
Another question I have is my uncle sent me a book by John Edward. He has a TV show, heís a medium, heís written this book on crossing over, and he goes into all these reports of people, that when you cross over you meet your relatives and this, that and another. Is this all kind of a ďmakie-upĒ thing or do you actually, when you go through your transition, or even before transition, when you cross over do you actually meet and greet people that you know in this lifetime and others? Also, I want to know, is this a continuing process? I mean, after you are into either transition or the nonphysical areas, do you continue to interact with other individuals that you have known in this physical time period and other physical time periods?
ELIAS: That once again is a choice. It is dependent upon the individual and that may be expressed in different manners. In generating the continuation of the objective awareness and continuing to generate physical manifestations, dependent upon the individualís beliefs they may generate imagery of meeting and interacting with other individuals that they have been acquainted with that they know to be dead, so to speak, or they may not. But remember, in that state, so to speak, all that they are generating is their own imagery, and they are not actually interacting with any other energies, so to speak, for a time framework.
Now; once moving into the action of transition, in a manner of speaking yes, they may be engaging the energies of other individuals that are familiar to them. But that is an action that is generated in association with dropping the veils of separation, and therefore in that action they would be, in your terms, reacquainted with all of the individuals that they have interacted throughout ALL of their focuses associated with this physical reality.
LUANA: And the final one, where youíve let go of your objective self and moved into nonphysical reality, when your attention is multiple in many areas, do you for instance, as an example, do you continue to interact and communicate with other essences and energies?
ELIAS: Yes, continuously, and you interact with all of these energies and all of these essences simultaneously.
LUANA: Simultaneously! Thatís so mind boggling to think about that when youíre sitting here with this kind of singular attention focus, to imagine being able to pay attention to all of these things simultaneously is kind of unbelievable, in a way. Not that I donít want to believe in it but... (Elias laughs)
Well, my dear friend, I really appreciate all this information. This has given me great inspiration and hope for continuing a communication and closeness and intimacy with my mate while heís in his processes. And again, I say I love you and I very much appreciate all these things that youíve told me today and the clarity youíve given me.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) You are very welcome, my dear friend. And I may express to you in parting, remember, in your terms I also am quite dead!
LUANA: I know! (Elias laughs) Itís charming! And I am too, in a way that I donít know about yet!
ELIAS: And you communicate with myself! (Laughs)
LUANA: Yes, and that is very true! Thatís what I call you; I picked that up from Mary. I said to some other people I feel I can share this with, ďIím going to talk to the dead guy next week.Ē (Elias laughs) Itís charming! Youíre charming! I love you.
ELIAS: Therefore, if you may speak with me, you may also speak with your partner.
LUANA: Thank you.
ELIAS: I offer great encouragement and supportiveness to you, my dear friend, and in wondrous lovingness, au revoir.
LUANA: Au revoir.
Elias departs after 1 hour, 1 minute.
© 2003 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.