Elias Transcripts – Session 1642, Sunday, October 17, 2004

FRAN: Well, I’ve got my usual big long list, but I’m kind of thinking that what I would like to do is discuss things that have come up in previous sessions, because of a tendency that in every session there’s always a big surprise. I don’t recover from them quickly enough to really press you on them and get more information. I was thinking about particularly the last session, a couple of things came up that just took me so off guard that I didn’t know how to respond to them. I’ve been doing some more thinking about it and thought maybe we might start there.

ELIAS: Very well.

FRAN: The first thing that was such a surprise to me was to find out that my old friend that was by my bedside thirty-some years ago when I woke up in the middle of the night was Tomkin. I mean that just completely surprised me, because I hadn’t even thought about Tomkin even interacting with me. That started sort of begging the question of how long have these twelve essences been interactive with all of us and with me specifically. Has it been most of my life?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: It has been; but I was never aware of it until about that time.

ELIAS: Correct.

FRAN: Then it sort of got me off on this thing of thinking about the exchange that I had with him at that time and how it felt like either a father-daughter or an old uncle or some kind of a paternal kind of relationship. That took me to thinking, oh my god, maybe I’m fragmented from Tomkin. Nanaiis, a couple of days after I came up with that one, confirmed with you that yes, I did fragment from Tomkin.

ELIAS: And?

FRAN: And you said “and others,” so who are those others? (Pause)

ELIAS: Swaha, S-W-A-H-A (SWAH ha); Maulin, M-A-U-L-I-N (MAW lin); and Kay.

FRAN: K-A-Y?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: Well, I’ll have to keep my ear close to the ground on this one and see if I come up with anymore. None of those names are familiar to me, or those tones are not familiar to me, except for Maulin, vaguely. (Elias chuckles) Anyway, that was very interesting.

I was kind of wondering if when I was in college, there used to be a red-haired guy that used to stare at me all the time when I was in the student union. Was that Tomkin?

ELIAS: No, but at times, a projection of energy of that essence.

FRAN: Well, it was a very strange experience, because he must have stared at me for three years. I would say oh, I have no idea why he’s staring at me and I’m probably just imagining things. I would basically discount the fact that he was. Then one day, about four years later, a friend of mine said, “Fran, who is that guy that stared at you in the student union all the time?” So I wasn’t imagining it! (Both laugh)

I have another story that I wanted to ask you about that is part of one of my loving memories of interactions with individuals. It has to do with when I was in college working as a waitress. One night I was working alone, except for probably the cook in the back room. A couple came in, and it was a real fat woman and a real skinny man, and they were both incredibly drunk. They had met each other that night at a party, and they had deserted their partners and were off and running to go up to Blue River, which was an area up the Mackenzie River, to spend a wild weekend together. They had me just rolling on the floor, telling me stories about what they’d been doing. At one point, the man got up to go play a song on the jukebox, and he came back and he said, “Oh shoot, they don’t have song I wanted to play. I wanted to play ‘Fran, My Little Blue-Eyed Baby.’” Was that you?

ELIAS: (Laughs loudly) Yes.

FRAN: Who were you with?

ELIAS: And shall you offer an impression?

FRAN: Was it Patel?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: Well, you guys! I enjoyed that so much, and I’ve never forgotten it. I know that the story behind that, what I was supposed to derive from that, was just to let myself go and enjoy myself and be playful. And of course, now I don’t necessarily do that. (Both laugh) But that was so much fun, and I’m delighted to hear that that was you.

Which reminded me that just as I was going to bed last night, I was reading Anjuli’s latest session, #1133, and she was talking to you about projecting physical manifestations... (Dog barks sharply) Is that Polly?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: (Laughs) Tell her to be quiet! (Elias chuckles) Anyway, going back to the whole experience and meeting you at Barnes and Noble, my bookstore-Elias...

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: You were saying in her session that it would have been quite voluntarily because it’s requiring such a concentration of energy and that it’s difficult for you but “...energy is recognized by other individuals and translated through their perception, and thusly the individual may project the actual physical manifestation of my energy, and their encounter with that physical expression may be projected in your terms for much longer time framework than I am actually manifesting.” Does that relate to my experience of meeting you in the bookstore?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: I’ve been curious about the mechanics of that. I was with a couple of other people, and I would like to know whether they perceived you as well.

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: But what were you perceived as, to them?

ELIAS: Merely as another individual.

FRAN: Were they seeing the same individual that I was seeing?

ELIAS: Somewhat different.

FRAN: That’s very interesting. And you made a special comment to me about how you liked my earrings. I figured that there was something sort of symbolic about that, and I was curious about why you mentioned my earrings. Was it just to bring my attention to myself?

ELIAS: Yes, and to be accepted as an appreciation of you and your appreciation of yourself in your adornment.

FRAN: Ah. Well, you were quite nicely adorned as well! (Elias laughs) I have this on-going thing with my earrings, and I didn’t know if that was one of the layers of it. You know, I keep my earrings in other dimensions. There’s a special dimension that’s called the “earring dimension” and it’s where all the old socks are also. (Elias laughs) I put my earrings into a drawer next to my bed, and a lot of times I can’t find them. I’ve had a couple of times when I completely emptied everything out and then put them all back in, a pair at a time, and there’s nothing there. Then the next time they show up again! (Elias laughs) I have a lot of fun doing that.

Last time I talked to you, also I was really giving myself a hard time about my work and having a lot of issues around money. You suggested to me that what I could try is to take my (inaudible) get up and leave, do whatever I need to do, go shopping – I thought that was a good one – or do whatever I needed to do to break the habits that I was setting for concentrating on lack. I want to thank you for that, because it really did help. I’ve been practicing it on other things, too. But most recently I’ve noticed I’m really having issues with allowance.

ELIAS: Ah. In what capacity?

FRAN: In what capacity? All capacities! (Laughs) I am so aware of how much I do not allow for myself, and it comes out in incredibly convoluted ways physically. For example, needing a new dryer and going to buy a new dryer and deciding that I really deserve to have a new dryer and if I’m going to have a dryer I need to have... You know, I can’t decide what it should be, and what it’s going to cost, but I should be allowed to have it. Then I go through this really long, complicated convoluted thing in which finally in the end I get my dryer, but not without a whole lot of grief. I know that there is so much that’s operating around that that has to do with allowance, it has to do with value and what I deserve. It just goes through layer and layer and layer. I’m thinking that also somewhere in there I see a pattern in my own behavior of setting up situations that are so convoluted that in the end when I get what I want, and I usually do, I have a story to tell at the end. It’s like that’s the payoff, that I have conquered adversity.

ELIAS: And have accomplished through struggle.

FRAN: Yes, because struggle is very valuable to me.

ELIAS: Correct, and the more struggle you generate in association with what you want and the more difficult it is to produce what you want, the more valuable the production becomes.

FRAN: Right, I kind of figured that out! I do that when I travel, too. In March and April I was traveling through Italy and had a long drawn out experience with struggling with it. It all came down to money and that stuff. I won’t go into the whole story now because you’re aware of it, but I finally worked my way through everything and afterwards I had this great story about being alone and stranded in Verona, da-da-da, and on and on. I guess one of these days if I ever write an autobiography it might be in my book!

ELIAS: And perhaps you value the drama of generating this story.

FRAN: I think I do. I come out in the end and it’s like St. George slaying the dragon or something, or Diogenes with his lantern or whatever; I’ve triumphed.

ELIAS: And in this, you are offering yourself valuable information as to judgments and natural movements of individuals and what you naturally and easily generate and how you express judgments concerning what you generate.

FRAN: Oh, I get what you’re saying. Is this is a natural movement for me?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: And I view it as one of my downfalls rather than recognizing it as a natural movement and just having fun with it.

ELIAS: Correct. Let me express to you, it is dependent upon the individual but some individuals naturally express drama as a manner in which they motivate themselves to generate certain outcomes, but they may also generate judgments concerning that drama and that method, for they allow other individuals to be influencing of them and accepting the judgment of other individuals that drama is bad. But it is not necessarily bad. Some individuals incorporate that type of expression as the spice in their experience.

FRAN: Well, in that case I have a very spicy experience! (Elias laughs)

There’s another thing that came out in one of my sessions; I think it might have been like my very first session. I asked you about an issue on my left foot, and you chuckled and said that it was a holding of energy and was related to the wave in sexuality, and had to do with irritation that I had with myself over certain things that I create, certain of my creations. That hasn’t stopped, and I haven’t figured out what it is yet. But one of the things that have happened over probably the last year or so is a tremendous amount of imagery about my left foot. It’s even gotten to the point where the movie “My Left Foot” has shown up on TV a couple of times. I wondered if Christie Brown is one of my focuses.

ELIAS: Counterpart.

FRAN: So is that related to this?

ELIAS: Partially, yes.

FRAN: Also my dad has had his left foot amputated. When I was in Italy, I did a sort of pilgrimage of Padua and Mantua and Verona, looking up paintings and stuff from one of my focuses, Andrea Mantegna. I noticed that in his paintings there were pieces of left feet! And it’s just gone on and on and on. Is there something else to this that I need to be noticing? Like obviously this has something to do with my feminine side?

ELIAS: Partially; it is a trigger. It may be associated with many different expressions, for it is a type of focal point or trigger point that you incorporate as imagery to move your attention. Therefore...

FRAN: Is it related to my movement?

ELIAS: It is associated with moving your attention, and therefore, you incorporate this particular imagery as a type of constant with yourself. It may be associated with many different subjects. The point is that it itself is imagery that is a signal to you to be paying attention.

FRAN: And it pulls my attention back to myself?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: Is it also related to the fact that when I’m traveling I have problems with my feet? I end up just being miserable as a result of the fact that my feet hurt so badly. I’m holding my energy in my red energy center?

ELIAS: Which is also associated with pushing your energy and expectations. This imagery concerning feet is a signal to you to be paying attention to what you are doing. For in association with traveling, you incorporate this manifestation for you generate expectations of what you should do and how much you should do and how much you should incorporate the usage of your time to be accomplishing the most.

FRAN: So I slow myself down with it.

ELIAS: Correct. It is your signal concerning how you are pushing your energy and the expectations that you generate in association with yourself.

FRAN: I had that experience in Italy. I went to Italy for three weeks, but for the first two weeks I was with a group of Hal’s students and other parents and teachers. The itinerary was just a killer, and I felt that I had two weeks of just being herded from one place to the next, never really taking time for myself and no time to myself. On the one hand, I really appreciated having someone show things to us, because it was my first trip there. But on the other hand, I really wanted time by myself. So I added an extra week and then took time to myself. I think that I probably could have used another month by myself, because I ended up in Padua with a bad cold, knowing that this means that I need to stay here and not try to go to Venice for a couple of days and not continuing to do this kind of itinerary that I’ve just followed for two weeks, that it’s just going to kill me. So I basically took a couple of days off and found that I just absolutely loved that city... (Telephone connection ends)

(In a couple of minutes, the telephone connection is reestablished, and the session continues)

ELIAS: Continue!

FRAN: Hello? (Both laugh) I was just babbling away and finally said I don’t know where I’m going with this, and then I realized that you weren’t there anyway. I guess I was so uninterested in what I had to say that I just had it cut off!

ELIAS: Actually, this is information that is worthy of your attention, how you generate these expectations of yourself and you push your energy and you do not actually generate fun in the situation that you anticipate being fun.

You generate a trip and you incorporate your plan to be experiencing fun situations and pleasurable experiences, but as you arrive you generate such intensity of expectations of yourself and force your energy in itineraries that are beyond what is comfortable for you that you actually do not generate fun. It becomes more of a chore, and then you do not appreciate your creation as much as you would were you allowing yourself to generate your own pace and your own direction, rather than expecting yourself to incorporate the pace and the directions of other individuals.

FRAN: Even when I was on my own and finally slowing down to my own pace and seeing exactly what I wanted to see and doing what I wanted to do, I still had to create difficulties for myself. One of these days I’ll stop doing that, don’t you think?

ELIAS: Perhaps or perhaps not, for this generates your stories. (Chuckles)

FRAN: Yes, that’s true; yes, you’re right. (Elias laughs)

There was one other thing I wanted to ask you about, and that was to clarify the whole thing with Thaïs. I understand that one of my focuses is named Thaïs who was one of the courtesans that was with Alexander and his army in Asia Minor.

ELIAS: And?

FRAN: And there’s a lot of confusion about the various Thaïs’, and I can’t seem to separate legend from fact. There was also a Thaïs who was the mistress of Ptolemy. I think the last time Giselle talked to you about this, you confirmed that that was not the same Thaïs. I am not the same person that was the mistress to Ptolemy.

ELIAS: Correct.

FRAN: The Thaïs that Anatole France and Massenet and those guys wrote about that became canonized by the Catholic Church, she was like the repentant whore, is that also a focus of mine or does that person actually exist?

ELIAS: Yes, that individual exists; no, that is not a focus of you.

FRAN: So it’s not the same person?

ELIAS: No.

FRAN: That was where the point of confusion was, that I never quite got. (Both laugh) So, the Thaïs that is mine – and I’m assuming that that was a very common Greek name at that time...

ELIAS: Yes, you are correct.

FRAN: ...was with Alexander’s army but wasn’t Ptolemy’s mistress. Okay, now I’m clear on all that.

ELIAS: Correct.

FRAN: Other questions about focuses: is Charles Greene a focus of mine, the architect Charles Greene?

ELIAS: Observing.

FRAN: Is it for his lifetime?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: So that’s why I have such a strong connection with him. I kind of connected his brother Henry with Bosht.

ELIAS: Also observing.

FRAN: That would explain that. One of the things that I got a big kick out of was that Charles Greene had written a novel at one point that was never published with the name Thaïs in it. One of the first buildings, one of the first houses that the Greenes designed and had built that was considered to be the beginning of developing their styles was a house for a gentleman named William Tomkin. (Elias chuckles) I love all these connections!

Oh, and here’s another one. I’ve asked you before if you and I have other focuses together aside from our contact now. You said yes, because you were involved in a couple of the chapters of the Shift book and also the Religious book, but I’ve never really pressed you on it. I’ve never asked you how many focuses we have together.

ELIAS: Twenty-four.

FRAN: I think I found one of them one night. I was dreaming that I was in a bar, and it must have been in North Africa or something like that. I can’t place the time; maybe it had to do with the Silk Route or something like that. But I was sitting at the bar and I looked down and I was doing something really strange, rubbing the tops of my arms with my hands. I looked down and saw large man’s arms and hands, clearly not mine. I think I was in the body of another one of my focuses. Just as someone was handing me a drink across the table, I looked up and there was another person there. I said, “Oh, you and I were drinking buddies,” and it was you. And you said, “Correct.”

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: Another dream that I had that we talked about in one of my first sessions had to do with meeting you in a bar in Tibet. Is this something that we’ve done frequently together? ELIAS: (Laughs) Several times.

FRAN: Several times! That’s kind of the feeling that I have with your energy, is that we’re drinking buddies. (Both laugh) Oh, gosh.

I had some conversations with Bosht about the whole Tomkin thing, and here’s another question for you regarding having Tomkin by my bed when I woke up. He had a greyhound with him. Why a greyhound dog?

ELIAS: And what would your impression be?

FRAN: Howard and I both kind of wondered if that’s just one of his symbols or my symbol of him.

ELIAS: No.

FRAN: What is it then?

ELIAS: It is imagery specifically to you.

FRAN: Is it regarding another focus in the Middle East?

ELIAS: No, it is regarding you.

FRAN: Regarding Fran?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: I don’t get it! (Laughs) Unless it’s that I’d like to have a greyhound dog.

ELIAS: It is specific imagery as to what that particular creature represents, and what it represents in relation to you is pushing energy and rescuing.

FRAN: Oh, my gosh! You guys have been on me for a long time about this pushing energy stuff, haven’t you?

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking.

FRAN: In my terms. (Both laugh) Rescuing, that’s very interesting. Why wasn’t it a Saint Bernard?

ELIAS: (Laughs) For it is not the creature that is rescuing, but the creature that is perceived to be needing rescuing.

FRAN: Is that like the little black cat that I’ve rescued on my back porch?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: The one that bit me and so I decided that being wild and free was dangerous?

ELIAS: Similar.

FRAN: That’s very interesting! See, every time I talk to you I come up with one of these little surprises. (Elias laughs) I didn’t realize that I tend to want to rescue people.

ELIAS: No, no, no. This is not what that imagery concerns. Remember, it concerns YOU.

FRAN: Rescuing myself?

ELIAS: Or being rescued.

FRAN: Why was I so pissed at him for showing up and not letting me do this myself?

ELIAS: In what capacity?

FRAN: Well, my response when I saw him – and obviously I recognized him but I didn’t know who it was – my response was “I told you I could do this myself; why are you here?”

ELIAS: For you were not necessarily appreciating of the imagery. At times, individuals respond to some imagery that they present to themselves in an adversarial manner, for it is in your terms too exposing in the moment, and you are unwilling to accept that exposure in the moment.

FRAN: I couldn’t accept it for 35 years, and I’m not sure that I’m accepting it now! (Both laugh)

ELIAS: But you are generating a willingness to be exploring, and you are generating a presentment of all of this to yourself and a willingness to examine what you are presenting to yourself, and that is significant.

FRAN: That’s true. I will give myself a point for that.

ELIAS: Ha ha! Very well!

FRAN: I have questions for a couple of other people as well. Let’s see, Marj wants to know if you are Akhenaton.

ELIAS: No.

FRAN: Ashrah keeps getting the impression that I have a focus that is interactive with her focus, Edna Ferber.

ELIAS: Somewhat, yes; it is correct.

FRAN: She keeps connecting me with George S. Kaufmann. Is this a connection?

ELIAS: No.

FRAN: Howard/Bosht and I have been having lots of fun with our architect connections. How many focuses do I have that are architects? I mean, there must be oodles of them.

ELIAS: Twenty-seven.

FRAN: Let me ask you this one; I’ve never asked you this. How many focuses do I have that are either famous or that I can read about? How many are famous or historic?

ELIAS: That fluctuates.

FRAN: It does? (Elias chuckles) How does that happen? What’s it fluctuating between?

ELIAS: It fluctuates for it concerns observing roles also. Remember, it is the choice of the individual which essence it incorporates as a directing essence in any focus. Therefore, that may fluctuate.

FRAN: I am just barely getting a glimmer of how incredibly interconnected everything is.

ELIAS: And so it is. (Chuckles)

FRAN: In fact, one of the things I’ve been thinking about over the last couple of years, in my very first session with you we discussed what my intent is. You gave me the long answer, and I’ve read it over and over and over again and I can’t really distill it down to just two or three words. I thought at one time that I did, and since then I’ve thinking about it more. I would like to know if my intent is merely the exploration of connections.

ELIAS: That would be a concise expression of it, yes.

FRAN: That’s where all of the extreme interest in synchronicities comes in.

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: That is when I am just at my fullest.

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: So, I was thinking that what I had distilled down was that it was acceptance through the exploration of differences, but it wasn’t feeling quite right.

ELIAS: No. And I may express to you that in this exploration of interconnectedness, as you explore other individuals or even other focuses or what you present to yourself in imageries, that is not to say that it is always related to other focuses of you, but that all of your reality is interconnected in different manners. It all offers you information, not merely in association with other focuses of yourself.

FRAN: Let me ask you about a dream that I had recently in which I dreamed that I was Mel Gibson’s daughter. I wasn’t even aware whether he had one or not. I was having a conversation with him, and he felt so familiar to me and like I actually was his daughter. Is that one of my focuses, Hannah Gibson?

ELIAS: Not in this focus, but you do incorporate other focuses with that individual in which you do express that role as a daughter.

FRAN: It felt so comfortable to me and so real. We were discussing philosophy, so I think that might be something that was a connection between the two of us in my other focuses...

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: ...the interest in spiritual things.

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: That’s very interesting. Is Vardis Fisher one of my focuses?

ELIAS: Counterpart.

FRAN: When he was writing “Jeremiah Johnson,” was that based on my John Colter focus?

ELIAS: Partially, not entirely.

FRAN: Here’s another one that I’ve been curious about. Gertrude Bell, is she one of my focuses?

ELIAS: No, but you do incorporate a focus that is known to that individual.

FRAN: I was reading about her recently. I had known nothing about her but she was very familiar to me.

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: And so is this a friendship?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: Let’s see, I’ve got all these notes sitting here. I also read an interesting book about a ship that was sent down to Australia with people that were being shipped out, being transported in the 18th century from England to Australia. I feel real strongly that I was on that boat. I think it was the “Lady Julia” or Juliet, or something like that.

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: I am one of the characters on that boat?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: And is Calum also with me on that boat?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: Are we both prostitutes?

ELIAS: No, not both.

FRAN: I am?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: (Laughs) And he is one of the crewmembers?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: We will go further with that one. (Both laugh) Walter Gropius or Mies van der Rohe, are either of those people a focus of Olivia?

ELIAS: Both observing and counterpart.

FRAN: For Olivia?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRAN: So that’s what Bosht was picking up. Wow, I’m really actually running out of things to ask you! I still have plenty of time; that’s surprising to me. I guess I always do this. What would you like to add?

ELIAS: (Laughs) And would you like me to add?

FRAN: Well, I don’t know; surprise me!

ELIAS: Perhaps we may merely engage conversation.

FRAN: What would you like to talk about?

ELIAS: How is your relationship with your new creature?

FRAN: It’s much better. It has improved after he bit me and I ended up over at the hospital getting antibiotics. (Both laugh) I’ll talk to you about him a little bit; that’s a great idea. He showed up starving and he’s very tiny, and my husband and I both decided to feed him. At one point, Hal asked me when he thought we should introduce him to our other two cats. Now, keep in mind that the other two cats are inside the house, and this guy is outside the house. I realized that a lot of the symbolism about those two cats being inside the house has to do with Fran’s freedom, how much freedom I allow myself and that I allow other people to determine my level of freedom.

So here is this cat that we nicknamed Scruffy who is a really wild feral animal. When Hal asked me when we should bring him in and introduce him to the rest of the animals, the other creatures, my first thought was I don’t want to bring him in; I want him to be out there because he is me. He is my wild aspect, and I want him to stay out there and be free. Well, a couple of days later, he bit me on the hand, and it was real clear to me that my wild aspect is pretty dangerous.

ELIAS: Is it?

FRAN: Well, not anymore.

ELIAS: Or that you perceive it to be, and that you perceive...

FRAN: To me that’s a dangerous part of myself. Myranda and I had this conversation just recently about the natural self. I have this fear that if I allow the natural self to come out that what I’ll do is just abandon everything that seems important to me now and I’ll run away. I know that you would say that it matters not and that’s a choice, but that’s a choice that would be very difficult for me to make.

ELIAS: But you would not necessarily incorporate that action. What you are doing is projecting and anticipating in association with a fear, for you generate a fear of your own freedom and of your own power, and you equate that power with danger. And that it...

FRAN: What occurred to me was why do I automatically assume that if I were allowing my energy and my power to move naturally for me that it would mean that I would leave anything? I mean, maybe this is what’s natural for me, to take on responsibility and to stay in one place. Do you understand what I am saying?

ELIAS: Yes, I am understanding, and it is. You are projecting a fear of an unknown. You are projecting a fear of an unknown, and in that unfamiliarity, you are anticipating destruction in association with power, for you incorporate an influence of a belief concerning power, that it incorporates tremendous potential to be destructive and that power should be controlled, and that freedom should be controlled and somewhat restricted as to not generate chaos. But in actuality, freedom merely enhances your experience and allows you to express yourself more in your natural flow of energy rather than restricting yourself. It also allows you to direct yourself.

But this is what generates the fear, for you are quite accustomed to allowing other individuals to direct you. You allow yourself to direct yourself in some situations, but in many circumstances you allow others to direct you, as in our example of your trips in which you acquiesce and you allow other individuals’ choices to dictate your choices which are not necessarily your preferences, which generates you forcing your energy to accommodate your expectations of yourself, and your expectations of yourself is that you shall acquiesce to other individuals and their choices and comply.

FRAN: As long as we’re talking about that, and it’s not quite 11:11 – I’m looking at the clock; I mean an 11:11 is a great time to hang up, right? – anyway, while we’re talking about this, that’s something that’s coming up that I’m trying to work my way through so that it’s not a traumatic experience or anything. But my business partner and I are probably going to be butting heads real soon on health insurance. This is an area where I have acquiesced, because I guess from what I can tell it’s more important, this is much more emotional to her than it is to me, so I will acquiesce because it’s easier for me. But the truth is, or my truth is, I have real issues with health insurance. I resent paying health insurance premiums and not getting a salary, myself. I also recognize that this is an area where she sees no choices. I know that somewhere along the line here there’s a way of working through this so that both of us can get what we want. Do you have any comments about this?

ELIAS: You are correct, and I suggest to you that you allow yourself to incorporate your communication of imagination, first of all, and in that allow yourself to drift in that communication to expand your periphery. Also, I suggest to you that you examine these differences, and in that examination evaluate your preferences, your truths, and recognize genuinely what are your preferences of participation – how you may cooperate with another individual without acquiescing, without comparing and without judgment in holding to your preferences but in cooperation with the other individual, recognizing what your participation is in what you actually do, what you are actually doing or what another individual is doing.

FRAN: What am I actually doing here?

ELIAS: This is the question. What are you...

FRAN: (Laughs) I’m putting that question to you: what the hell am I doing?

ELIAS: What are you actually doing that you do not prefer?

FRAN: What I’m actually doing is paying into a system that I have derived very little benefit from.

ELIAS: And therefore you perceive this as an exchange, a give and take, and that it should be expressed equally. What do you receive in your payment into this plan?

FRAN: Very little.

ELIAS: What is the purpose of this plan?

FRAN: Well, the purpose of it is really to cover my business partner, not me.

ELIAS: In what capacity?

FRAN: It’s her security. We are so different in the way we approach questions of health and questions of security and safety. I feel that paying money into a health insurance policy is like pouring money down a rat hole. She perceives it as being a necessity. She has to have it because she feels unsafe without it and unprotected.

ELIAS: And in this, that would be the other individual’s choice, would it not?

FRAN: That is correct, yes.

ELIAS: It would be the other individual’s preference, and it would the other individual’s choice.

FRAN: But it’s not my choice.

ELIAS: And therefore...?

FRAN: And therefore, I need to work through a way in which we can both have what we want, where she going to feel safe, she has her health insurance, and I don’t feel like I’m just... Another issue here, of course, is the fact that when we’re paying large premiums it’s less money that we have as a salary.

ELIAS: I am understanding.

FRAN: I have an issue with that, and so my preference is really to say to her how about if we buy you an insurance policy, you have a private policy, and then I get an equal amount of money to with what I want, whether it’s whether I want to be insured or not.

ELIAS: That would be another choice.

FRAN: I’m seeing that as a choice. Her comment about that is where else could we both get a policy that we were both covered that is so inexpensive. And I’m saying but it’s not inexpensive, it’s only inexpensive if we were both using it. I feel that it’s 670-some dollars a month that covers her.

ELIAS: I am understanding. Therefore, the challenge is to generate a cooperation in acknowledgment of each of your preferences, not to be generating a judgment but...

FRAN: Which is what I’m doing right now.

ELIAS: Yes, I am aware. Not to be incorporating the judgment but to be acknowledging the differences in genuine acknowledgment that her preferences are not wrong or bad. They are her preferences and that her preferences are not an expression of a wrong or insecure expression of energy. They are associated with her beliefs and her truths, which are her guidelines and they are not wrong. You incorporate your own truths and your own preferences, which are also not wrong, but they are different. Therefore, neither of which is to be judged as better or worse than the other, but both to be acknowledged as your individual truths and real.

FRAN: When you say it, it’s all very clear. I know that we’ll work our way through it, and I really appreciate it. But you know what, my dear friend, it’s 11:11.

ELIAS: Ah! Very well, my friend, this shall your challenge, to be acknowledging and accepting of these differences and to be generating a genuine cooperation and not a comparison but also not an acquiescing. In this, I shall be offering my energy to you in supportiveness and encouragement.

FRAN: Thank you very much.

ELIAS: You are quite welcome. And I shall incorporate the confidence that you shall discover a choice in cooperation.

FRAN: Thank you, I know I will.

ELIAS: I shall be anticipating our next meeting, my friend, and you may offer my greetings to your partner.

FRAN: Both of my partners, or which one? My business partner or my at-home partner?

ELIAS: Your at-home partner.

FRAN: The one who keeps yelling at you when you turn the lights off and on? (Both laugh)

ELIAS: You may offer my heartfelt greetings!

FRAN: I will do that. ELIAS: And perhaps follow that...

FRAN: One of these days he’s actually going to acknowledge your existence!

ELIAS: Perhaps as you offer my heartfelt greetings, you may also express to him that I also do not incorporate a heart! Ha ha ha!

FRAN: I will do that. (Both laugh) Thank you very much. As usual, it’s been wonderful. I love your playful energy, and I will see you in Castaic.

ELIAS: Very well, my friend, I shall be reminding you to be playful.

FRAN: Thank you.

ELIAS: To you in great affection and tremendous fondness, au revoir.

FRAN: Au revoir.

Elias departs after 1 hour, 4 minutes.

Previous session | Go to the top | Next session