Sunday, December 14, 1997
“Dream Walker Interaction/Tumold”
Participants: Mary (Michael), Vicki (Lawrence), Cathy (Shynla), Norm (Stephen), David (Mylo), Helen (Jsenne), Drew (Matthew), Jim (Yarr), Bobbi (Jale), and Sue (Catherine).
Margot’s note: I simply ate up this session! Not only was the whole Tumold thing fascinating, but the discussion at the end, precipitated by David and Drew, was totally excellent!
Elias arrives at 6:43 PM.
ELIAS: Good evening. (Smiling)
GROUP: Good evening.
ELIAS: We shall begin with your game this evening.
DAVID: Okay, then I’ll start. I want to go with one that I tried an attempt on about three weeks ago, and that’s to give Princess Diana her category, and that’s personality types with Vold.
HELEN: I have one. Ilda, authors, Neale Walsch.
SUE: Borledim, personality types, Roy Rogers. (Laughter)
ELIAS: Acceptable. (Grinning)
DREW: I have one in a new category, and the new category would be food: Twinkies with Borledim. (Much laughter)
HELEN: We need to know this!
ELIAS: Acceptable. (Grinning)
DAVID: Gosh, it’s an “acceptable” night!
VICKI: For Jo: Borledim, roots and berries, blackberries.
ELIAS: One point.
VICKI: For Paul, he would like to suggest a new category of Greek muses, and in that category, Erato with the Borledim family.
ELIAS: Less probable.
VICKI: Okay, his next impression in that area – I’m not real sure of the pronunciation of these muses – Euterpe with Sumafi.
ELIAS: Less probable.
VICKI: Excuse me. His impression is Sumari, not Sumafi.
ELIAS: Less probable.
VICKI: Okay. His next one: Calliope, Tumold.
ELIAS: Less probable.
VICKI: Oh dear! His next, Clio with Gramada.
ELIAS: Less probable.
VICKI: His next, Melpomene with Vold.
ELIAS: One point.
VICKI: Oh, good! For Mary: Milumet, the muses, Erato.
ELIAS: One point.
VICKI: Okay. For myself: Vold, astrological signs, Scorpio.
ELIAS: One point.
CATHY: I want to open a category of prehistoric animals: Saber-toothed tiger, Zuli.
ELIAS: One point.
BOBBI: I don’t know if this tile has been mentioned or not ’cause it seems so familiar, but under the category of tiles, then: A dark twilight blue background, a black triangle etched in gold, and two intertwined spirals. No one has mentioned that one, have they?
BOBBI: Okay. That would be the interconnectedness of all things with Tumold.
ELIAS: One point.
NORM: I’m going to try one! Astronomical ...
ELIAS: Ah! We shall be noting this! Stephen entering our game! Hold your applause! (Laughter)
NORM: A new category: Astronomical objects, the moon, Sumafi.
ELIAS: One point! (Applause and comments from the group)
NORM: Thank you!
ELIAS: (Chuckling) You see, you may merely be attempting, and you may be accomplishing!
NORM: You gave that to me, didn’t you?
CATHY: I doubt it!
Very well. This evening we shall continue with our discussion of the Dream Walkers and their interaction with you within energy exchanges.
We move to the family of Tumold this evening. This be an interesting family for energy exchange, for they exchange with the Dream Walkers in a manner unusual and slightly different than the other essence families. Their exchange is within energy and other individuals. They are the Readers; they read other individuals. They gain their exchange by energy exchanged through other physically focused individuals. This is not to say that they are not attuned to other energies, for they are. They may be receiving information through energy itself, which they objectively recognize and physically feel. They also may be viewed as quite strange to many of you, for they may be found speaking and listening to objects, to vegetation, to the elements, within your creation of your wind and water and earth and air and fire. These elements speak to them within energy. They are tuned to be listening and recognizing the energy configurations of these elements that you have created. Therefore, other essences may be communicating through these elements, and these individuals shall receive their information in like manner to the information that you receive within this forum.
Within other individuals, they receive their information through energy. They assimilate the energy that they receive through other individuals, which in a manner of speaking is channeled by another essence, a Dream Walker, through an individual, and the individual of the Tumold family shall be receptive to this and hold an accurate interpretation of the information being sent, so to speak. No communication need be engaged within your language. They shall be receiving the information through energy that they shall assimilate through their physical body consciousness.
Individuals BELONGING to the Tumold family are very aware that their intent is NOT healing, not in the manner that YOU view healing. Their healing is merely to be reminding, and being helpful in restoring elements to their natural state; being helpful in directing energy. Therefore, individuals BELONGING to the Tumold family hold little desire to be actively helpful objectively to other individuals in the areas of healing that YOU view as healing, although they ARE very healing to all individuals that they may be in contact with, and they are also very healing within consciousness to you all; but their actions may appear quite differently from actions of individuals that are ALIGNED with the Tumold family. Individuals ALIGNED with the Tumold family DO move in the direction of healing, in your terms. This be their experience within an individual focus. This is different from those BELONGING to the Tumold family. Individuals ALIGNED with the Tumold family shall not be experiencing that of which I have spoken in the interaction of the Dream Walkers and their exchange, not in the manner of those BELONGING to the Tumold family.
Within different time frameworks of your history, you have created certain groups of individuals belonging to the Tumold family. In this, you view them pastly to be shamans or witch doctors or at times, witches. These individuals listen to the message presented in the elements, and respond as if someone had spoken to them. They do not hear voices as other individuals may, but they receive the information. They may gaze into the fire or connect with the wind, and it shall speak to them. A tree may offer them information as it moves its leaves and branches.
Other individuals without audibly speaking may offer them information within their energy. They do not receive the information initially within thoughts. In their experience, you may view them as entering into a temporary altered state, a natural altered state, and at times an induced altered state. Within this state they open their objective awareness to the information which is offered to them by Dream Walkers within the Tumold family. Some have induced altered states with certain substances throughout your history. Others induce this state naturally, at will. Either way, the same result is produced. It is an action of opening themselves objectively within their consciousness to allow the subjective and objective to merge, and allow a communication from Dream Walkers that shall be instructive to them and also to other individuals around them.
Throughout your history, these individuals have been labeled many things. They also have labeled their interactions in many ways. At times, they express that they speak to spirits. At other times, they do not hold an objective awareness of that which they speak to. They are merely aware and hold an inner knowing that the information which has been offered is valid and is information from the Dream Walkers, although they do not objectively recognize these as Dream Walkers.
The Tumold family presents an interesting dichotomy within your physical focus, for individuals are BELONGING to the Tumold family within physical focus and other individuals are ALIGNED with the Tumold family, and within this one family the difference between the alignment and the belonging to the family is vast. The expression of those that are belonging to the family of Tumold and those that are aligned with the family of Tumold is very different.
Individuals ALIGNING with the family of Tumold concern themselves tremendously within physical focus in the area of healing in all of its aspects – emotional, spiritual, mental, physical. There is a great movement in the area of PHYSICAL healing within those individuals aligned with Tumold.
The difference in its most affecting area is that individuals BELONGING to the Tumold family hold no expectation within their expression. Their thought process does not magnate in the direction of healing. They are not attempting to “fix” anything. Therefore, they hold no expectation. They also accomplish quite easily and naturally in this area, for they do not hold an expectation.
Individuals ALIGNED with Tumold hold tremendous expectation. They do not quite understand the action of the Tumold family. Tremendous belief systems have been acquired in this area. Therefore, they are continuously attempting to be proving to themselves and other individuals the abilities of healing. They place this into objective areas and wish to be showing themselves and other individuals that they, as you also, hold the ability to be affecting. This creates a tremendous expectation, for they are wishing to see a result. Individuals BELONGING to the Tumold family care not of a result, for it is unimportant.
Some individuals within the Tumold family, in BELONGING to the Tumold family, may even at times be creating of injury or disease within themselves spontaneously, and alter that creation and spontaneously UN-create what they have created merely for the benefit that other individuals may be connecting and realizing more of their reality than they are aware of in that particular present moment, and also to be addressing to the individual’s belief systems within the areas of what you term to be healing.
In a sense, these would be viewed to you as parlor tricks, no different than levitating a table or materializing a vase; but at times, for the belief systems are so very strong in these areas among you all, some individuals belonging to the Tumold family may be inspired, also within communication of the Dream Walkers, to be exhibiting this type of behavior, that it may address to your own belief systems and it may challenge your belief systems and allow you to be opening to your periphery.
It is quite an interesting family of consciousness, this Tumold. This be also the reason that they “follow” – they are those that address to your strongest belief systems. Therefore, as you have addressed to your other belief systems within your physical focus and attempting to be accepting of these, you shall continue to hold very strong underlying belief systems that for the most part you do not address, for they are so much a part of your physical focus that you do not even see them. These belief systems are the most difficult, and these are those that the Tumold addresses to and allows a surfacing of – all of the belief systems that you hold within you concerning your physical form, your psyche, your spirituality, your emotional states. These are the elements that the Tumold addresses to, and brings surfacely for you to be addressing to. You look to your belief systems, to be altering or changing or accepting within your behaviors, but you hold tremendous belief systems within these areas of form, of psyche, of emotion, of spirituality that you do not even address yet.
I express to you that you within your physical form may consume rocks and sustain yourself. You view this as amusing and non-reality. You hold tremendous belief systems, very strong belief systems, as to how you must be maintaining your physical form. What you consume has nothing to do with the maintenance of your physical form. It all works in harmony, and when ANY element of these four aspects is within disharmony, ALL are within disharmony. It makes no difference what you are consuming, in itself. It makes no difference what you hold within emotion, in itself. It is of no consequence what you believe within your spirituality, within itself. It holds no matter what you believe within your psyche, within itself. They all move in harmony to each other. THIS is the area of healing that the Tumold provides. In restoring to a natural state, they lend energy to bringing into alignment and harmony these four aspects of yourselves within your physical focus, within consciousness, objectively and subjectively. (Pause) You may ask your questions.
DAVID: How does the Milumet bring up belief systems to the surface? In what way does that work? Individually or en masse?
ELIAS: Milumet addresses to the area of spirituality. Therefore, they present elements of your reality that may be contrary to what you believe within your identification of spirituality. They also present other areas of reality that may seem to you to be unfamiliar and foreign, but in presenting differences they offer you a wider awareness of reality, and that your spirituality is not merely lofty “cosmic” areas that are unreachable, but are intertwined with every element of your physical focus.
NORM: I have a question in regard to the definition of the natural state. Am I in my natural state?
NORM: Then what is it?
ELIAS: Within your belief systems, yes. Within your creation of what you create presently, yes. Within essence and its expression and movement into the accomplishment of this shift in consciousness and completing your cycle, no.
NORM: What should I look like? (Laughter)
ELIAS: Whatever you wish! (Grinning)
Any element within you that is within disharmony is a creation of not being within your natural state. This shift creates a circle, in returning you to an element of the Dream Walkers. This be the reason that I express to you of the Dream Walkers. Otherwise, it would be unnecessary to express anything of these Dream Walkers; but as you accomplish this shift in consciousness, you shall be returning to this state, so to speak. You shall be physically focused, unlike the Dream Walkers, but hold the awareness of the Dream Walkers.
JIM: I have a question. Good evening, Elias!
ELIAS: Good evening.
JIM: A few weeks ago, a number of us were on the computer and we were talking about intents and actions, and Lawrence came on and responded to me saying, ..”. using Tumold to be helpful to his Sumafi intent.” That statement’s intrigued me for the last few weeks, and I was wondering if you could expand on that in what you’ve just stated.
ELIAS: In being the least distorting.
JIM: Within the information that you’ve just offered as well? And I appreciated that. That hit home. Thank you.
ELIAS: Correct. As I have stated, in a manner of speaking you may be expressing that individuals ALIGNED with Tumold in many respects are distorting of the intent of Tumold, for they have allowed their belief systems to be overpowering of the intent. Tumold may be quite helpful in furthering the intent of the Sumafi, for they are quite aligned in not wishing to be creating of distortion. The intent of the Tumold, as I have stated, is not to be altering another individual’s creation or reality, but merely to be helpful in lending energy to a natural state and a harmony within all individuals and themselves. They are not attempting to “FIX” something. They are accepting of creations.
Within an individual BELONGING to the Tumold family, they may be interacting with another individual who is creating of disease, and they shall not create an attempt to be moving energy in a manner to discourage the individual from creating this disease. They are accepting that this is the individual’s creation, and if they are choosing to be continuing with this creation, this is acceptable. They may merely move into the direction of being helpful to the individual within their creation, recognizing that this is their choice to be within harmony of all of the aspects of the self in their creation.
JIM: Okay, thank you.
ELIAS: You are welcome.
VICKI: I have a question. Melinda and Tom are both of the Tumold family, and for a little while now they’ve been having some pretty interesting experiences, most especially in dream state and in out-of-body state. They have had experiences that have pretty much blown them away. My question is, in these experiences that they’re having, is this what you were talking about tonight? Are they receiving information through the interaction of the Dream Walkers of the Tumold family within these experiences?
ELIAS: Correct. This would be an example. It is entering into an altered state, in your terms, although they are not altered states! In this altered state, they are receiving their communication and information within their experiences. This may not be interpreted, as one ALIGNED with Tumold, as an aspect of healing. It may be interpreted in very many ways, but it is offering information and it IS helpful, for it automatically generates a natural element of healing within their energy which automatically is affecting of other individuals, and within consciousness.
NORM: What was it? Was it the information or was it the act of receiving the information that was so startling to them, or both?
VICKI: It’s the experiences they’ve been having that’s so amazing to them. They have, for example, met in dream state or in out-of-body state within an agreement, and had an objective awareness of it the next day. They’ve also realized a lot of very strong connections between the two of them within these types of experiences.
ELIAS: Just as you hold amazement within the experience of this forum.
VICKI: Yeah, they hold the same kind of amazement in what they’re doing. (This felt so weird, sitting there talking about Melinda and Tom like they weren’t there ... which of course, they were!)
ELIAS: It is an experience; but you also connect with the information that you receive, as do they also.
VICKI: They have connected with a lot of information, for example, of the city.
NORM: Of the what?
VICKI: The city.
NORM: The city ...
VICKI: They’ve been going there quite often. Pretty interesting!
NORM: I have to get more information about that.
HELEN: The four parts of ourselves that you said the Tumold would be helping us to heal and act in harmony, do they have any connection with the four earth, wind, fire, water or whatever of the earth? Is there any connection to the four parts of ourselves?
ELIAS: For the individuals within the Tumold family they hold significance, although they are symbols. They are imagery that they connect to within their exchange of essence, just as you hold imagery within this exchange. I express within this exchange what appears to you to be emotion, for this is what you understand. Therefore, you connect within your imagery and it is expressed. It is a symbol. It is not necessarily a reality outside of this dimension. It is merely a symbol for you, just as these elements of your earth and fire and water and air are also symbols to the individuals belonging to the Tumold family.
HELEN: Would the American Indians be aligned with the Tumold family?
ELIAS: Some, not all.
HELEN: There’s not a real strong connection in that area?
ELIAS: There is no one culture that is completely aligned with one family, not even your aborigines. They may be strongly aligned with one family, but no one culture is completely aligned with one essence family. Within your Native Americans, these individuals align PARTIALLY with the Tumold, but not as strongly as the aborigines align with Milumet.
HELEN: I guess I got an image when you were talking about the Tumold family of the medicine men ...
HELEN: ... in the Native Americans.
HELEN: They were probably aligned with Tumold, or from the Tumold family ...
HELEN: ... because they dealt with the elements, the symbols you were talking about, and believed and received information of healing.
ELIAS: Absolutely, which is a very good example; but this would be but one individual within a tribe.
HELEN: I guess I should have phrased my question differently; the medicine men of the Native Americans, ’cause that’s who I was really thinking of, not them as a culture. Okay!
SUE: I used to know a man named Ray who had an amazing way of getting computers to work. People would try to fix something and it wouldn’t work, and Ray would come along and do exactly the same thing and suddenly it would work. Could he have been a member of the Tumold family?
ELIAS: Yes. As I have expressed, it is not necessarily what you view as healing. Any individual within any occupation may be belonging to the Tumold family, and in belonging to the Tumold family shall automatically hold an ability to be affecting objectively and subjectively without trying.
SUE: Yeah, when you said these people will communicate with objects or exchange energy with objects, that’s what made me think of him because he seemed ... it was almost like machines responded to him differently than they did to other people.
ELIAS: This be also why individuals belonging to the Tumold family hold differences to individuals that are aligned with Tumold. Within their belief systems, those individuals ALIGNED with Tumold misinterpret the communication and the connection with elements within your physical focus. Therefore, many individuals ALIGNED with Tumold within physical focus may focus their energy in areas of crystals, recognizing within their alignment and their partial intent that they hold an intimate connection to all that you have created within your physical focus, but misinterpreting and assigning the energy to the element as opposed to themselves and other essences and energies.
JIM: Other essences and energies will also, as I’ve experienced in communication with people aligned with Tumold, receive information?
JIM: That’s been pretty much my experience. Okay.
HELEN: So what you’re saying about the crystals is that they think the crystal is what holds the knowledge or the energy that they’re looking for, when it’s simply just an object from which they get the information or the energy.
ELIAS: It is an element that energy may be channeled through, no different than Michael.
HELEN: So in their belief systems, they think that by wearing the crystals, that ...
ELIAS: That the element itself is generating the energy to be affecting.
HELEN: Hmm. So that would be like wearing Michael around our necks! (You crack me up, Helen!)
ELIAS: Quite! I suggest it would not be very healing or helpful to you, and quite weighing and burdensome! (Laughter)
SUE: But they could wear a piece of glass or a piece of plastic, and it would work just as well.
ELIAS: Quite, for it is involving their belief systems; but this is an example of the distortion within the intent.
We shall break, and you may continue with your questioning.
BREAK 7:31 PM.
SUE: I have a question. Last week I wasn’t here, but Bobbi said that you were talking about the Zuli and them connecting with the Dream Walkers through the body and the physical – dancing and things like that. Would that include the Sufi whirling dervishes, that sort of activity?
DAVID: I have a question. If an individual is dying and they have a lot of anger towards another individual, and they die and they carry this anger with them, this is energy, correct?
DAVID: Where does it go, this anger?
ELIAS: It is dependent upon the individual’s choice to be moving out of the belief systems that are generating the emotion.
DAVID: But generally, many, many people in their belief systems want to ... how can I put it? It’s like they choose to ... they can’t take this anger with them. They have to disperse it or do something with it, so they either choose with the other individual to be reborn again and to work this anger out. (Elias grins) I’m not talking about karma! But in that type of way ... I’m trying to figure out what they do and how they choose to get rid of this anger.
ELIAS: They do not necessarily create an agreement with the other individual to be “working out” this anger. It is stemming from a belief system. Once entering into non-physical transition, the action is to be eliminating of the belief system. Therefore, in your terms figuratively speaking, it is merely a matter of time; although there is no time within non-physical transition, so to speak, not in the manner that you recognize time.
DAVID: So is it common then, for an individual that DOES have a belief system and is not aware of it being a belief system, to choose to come back or have another focus with another individual to work that energy out?
DAVID: It’s not done that way.
DAVID: Okay, thank you.
ELIAS: The individual does not “come back!” (Laughter)
DAVID: But they create another focus or experience together.
ELIAS: They are all simultaneous! (Laughter)
HELEN: Shot down again!
DAVID: (Laughing) Next question, please! (Elias begins chuckling)
JIM: I have a game entry. In the category of philosophers, Voltaire with Tumold.
ELIAS: Less probable. (Chuckling)
HELEN: I have a game entry! In the category of ...
ELIAS: Ah, ah, ah, ah!
ELIAS: You may reserve this for our next meeting!
HELEN: Okay ...
Vic’s note: We have agreed as a group that each person may enter only one correct impression per session. This agreement has changed several times in the last few years.
DREW: I have a question about transition. Is it correct to say that a focus is not a thing, but a focus of energy?
DREW: So when we die, what is it that is shedding its beliefs?
ELIAS: The personality which is focused. The energy configures itself in the design of the personality, which is the individual. In this, the individual within the focus – the focused attention of the element of essence – creates and hold belief systems. Therefore, in moving into non-physical areas of transition, the action of transition is to be eliminating and shedding of these belief systems; shedding away the camouflage.
DREW: After physical death, the personality continues?
DREW: In our terms, forever?
DREW: Hmm ... without the belief systems that we’ve attached in physical reality?
DREW: And so then it is free to explore whatever dimensions it chooses to explore for the experience.
DREW: Hmm! So our personality continues and has always been?
ELIAS: Yes. (Pause)
VICKI: You’re stuck with yourself! (Much laughter)
ELIAS: Quite! (Grinning)
DREW: If we wanted to identify with this personality as closely as possible, is that different from trying to get in touch with our essence?
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking.
DREW: There are characteristics unique to the personality.
DREW: And with all of the exercises we’ve been doing and the information we’ve been getting, has that been designed to put us more in touch with essence or our personality?
DREW: Okay. Is there a way to know when we’re getting in touch with one as opposed to the other? Is there a difference in the quality of the experience or the action?
ELIAS: Objectively, for the most part, you are not remembering of connections or interactions that you explore of essence. At times you may be remembering of this interaction, but it shall be far removed from the familiarity of your physical focus. Interactions as such with the alignment of tone, which was experienced previously within this forum with Michael, is an experience of interaction with essence, but it holds no familiarity to you within your objective awareness. It holds little meaning within your understanding, for it is so very far removed from your directed attention.
Within this dimension, within any particular focus, your attention is focused very singularly and very directly in the manifestation of the physical focus. Therefore, your energy is directed in this manner. Interacting with the whole of essence is quite unfamiliar to the directed attention of the focus, but it is possible and attainable to be interacting with essence objectively.
DREW: So is it fair to say then that those experiences that we have that we objectively remember are more likely an interaction with our personality than it is with essence?
ELIAS: Not necessarily, for you are also involving more aspects of essence than you have previously allowed within your attention. You connect with other focuses of your essence, which are all elements of you as essence ...
DREW: But they are all personalities.
DREW: So again, those are interactions with personalities as opposed to essence.
ELIAS: Essence is personality also.
DREW: Yeah, I understand, but it’s ...
ELIAS: These are all of the aspects of the whole of the personality, just as you hold within one focus many aspects to your personality. You hold humor, you hold sadness, you hold emotion, you hold physical awarenesses, you hold thought processes. You have your spirituality, your psyche. These are all different aspects of your one focus. In this same manner, each focus is a mirror of essence, in a manner of speaking, for essence also holds personality, and all of its focuses are all of the aspects of that personality.
DREW: There are aspects of essence which are not personality. Is that true?
ELIAS: It may not be separated.
DREW: Well, personality is essence and essence is personality, but essence is not ONLY personality, is it?
ELIAS: Not in the definition that you hold of personality.
DREW: Is there meaning to my question??
ELIAS: (Grinning) Yes! (Laughter)
DREW: Because ... what brought me to this initially was, what is it after we die that lingers on that needs to shed its beliefs, and you said the personality. But it’s my perception that there is far more to essence than personality. There is all of consciousness ...
DREW: ... which is not, in our terms, strictly personality.
ELIAS: Correct; but you are making a distinction of essence.
DREW: If there are aspects of essence that are not personality, what are those aspects, if they’re not differentiated in some way?
ELIAS: In your terms there is a differentiation, for essence is all of consciousness, but it is defined by the individual personality.
DREW: Which is the tone.
DREW: So in a sense, all consciousness has a vibration that’s unique to itself.
DREW: But is that what our personality is that is in transition, that carries on? It’s just a frequency of that particular tone?
DREW: Huh! Okay, thank you.
ELIAS: But also be remembering, this does not diminish the focus, for the focus holds all of essence. Therefore, in moving through transition, as I have stated, you do not become absorbed into this gigantic “amoeba of essence” that you are merely an element of, but you hold all of essence and continue within non-physical areas of consciousness. You do not “come back.” You do not reincarnate. You continue. You have allowed yourself the physical experiences. Therefore, it is unnecessary for you to be continuing. You merely enter into a transitional state to be shedding the belief systems. It is merely a similar action of moving from one room in your home to another room in your home and removing your clothing. You are shedding your camouflage.
DREW: Well, a particular personality is capable of being in more than ... is a particular personality capable of being in more than one dimension at one time? Must be, ‘cause time is simultaneous.
DREW: So, once we have left physical reality, we will be entering areas that we’re already in anyway. So why would we need to shed belief systems when we’re already experienced in these other dimensions in the first place?
ELIAS: Belief systems are relative to physical focus only. They are not relative to non-physical areas of consciousness. (Pause) This enters you into your area of simultaneous time, which even Siman does not truly understand! (Grinning)
DREW: Well, it’s BECAUSE of simultaneous time that it seems strange to me that we would have to shed believe systems, because all of those areas that we will be exploring once we’re dead, in our terms, we’re already exploring.
DREW: And therefore, why does there need to be a transition period in order to shed beliefs that are relative to a dimension when we’re already experiencing the other dimensions anyway?
ELIAS: For you have created physical dimensions WITH time frameworks.
DREW: Hmm ... okay.
JIM: Would those beliefs, within our movement within transition, those would be held subjectively as well?
ELIAS: Correct, to an extent.
DREW: Well, once we’re dead there’s nothing but subjectivity! (You can hear Cathy cracking up in the background)
ELIAS: Not initially! (Grinning) Initially, within your action of transition, you continue to hold your objective awareness. Therefore, you hold your belief systems. You also hold awareness of your body consciousness.
DREW: We hold objective awareness once we’re dead?
DREW: The same objective awareness I currently have?
DREW: So if I am in a coffin in a grave, I have that awareness?
ELIAS: Correct. (Here there is a heavy pause)
HELEN: (Whispering) Oh my god!
Margot’s note: I believe I have just decided on cremation!
DREW: Hmm! Actually, I think I had that experience in a TFE, didn’t I? (Elias nods) I remember that. One last question along these lines: Simultaneous time notwithstanding, once we’re dead, will we have a remembrance -- and we’ve gone through transition – is there memory for us then of this experience in physical reality?
ELIAS: Yes, but it is different from what your thought process dictates within this particular focus. Within this focus, you view you as you and nothing else. Your attention is entirely focused upon this personality aspect. Therefore, you also believe that when you die and you have moved through transition, you shall singularly be you, and you shall remember this focus very clearly, and as singular and all-important. You shall look back – which is not looking back -- to your lifetime as Drew, not as essence of Matthew, and you shall express to yourself, “Ah, yes! I am remembering of my tenth birthday! Ah, what a wonderful Christmas we held at twenty-three! Oh, what a horrible death I suffered!” (Laughter)
This is incorrect, for you move into the area of essence, of non-physical, of simultaneous time, where all of your aspects are focused and accomplishing simultaneously. Therefore, no one element holds greater significance than another element, and there are countless elements. There are more than you may count. Underline this sentence!
DAVID: Is this where trauma comes in, in transition then? Facing all that and not being aware of what it is in transition?
DAVID: So it’s not a pleasant experience then?
ELIAS: Not necessarily pleasant or unpleasant. It merely is.
DREW: I would think the trauma would be being aware of yourself dead in a coffin!
ELIAS: Not necessarily. This would be dependent upon your belief systems!
JIM: All of that is dependent upon your belief systems, as to how much trauma you cause yourself within the transition.
DAVID: Well, in one hundred percent of my belief systems, it will be trauma, and painful!
ELIAS: We have spoken previously, when questioned, about interaction of essences and also physically-focused individuals attempting to be helpful to certain focuses within transition; for at times, an individual focus may be choosing to be resisting of transition and may hold itself in limbo, so to speak, for what you view as a time framework, although it appears as no time framework to the individual focus. They merely are, but they also are not experiencing the action of transition.
DREW: This is a question that’s kind of related, and that I’ve always just been curious about. Is there any difference, in terms of the ... for lack of a better word, freeing of the energy of the body consciousness, between conventional burial and cremation?
ELIAS: This is merely a choice also. You are not “freeing” the body consciousness. You choose objectively and subjectively how to be directing of the body consciousness once you are removing the subjective awareness at your disengagement. You choose this for many different reasons. Some individuals choose to be not engaging as much of the body consciousness initially within the action of transition, and addressing to very strong belief systems. Therefore, they may choose to be allowing the body consciousness to be continuing within physical focus for a time framework. Many individuals holding very strong religious belief systems choose this type of action, allowing themselves a period to be dealing with very strongly-held religious belief systems and allowing the body consciousness to follow subsequently, in your terms.
SUE: Can I ask ... I recently read a novel about Evita, Eva Peron, whose body ... after she died her body was embalmed, and the body was moved around from various places for years and different things happened to it. It was amazing, the things that happened to her body after she was dead for like thirty years. And I wondered, was there any part of her that was still connected, some part of her personality that was still connected with that body as it was moved around from place to place and things happened to it?
ELIAS: Your body consciousness is an aspect of the focus which is an expression of essence. Therefore, although the subjective awareness is removed from the direction of the body consciousness, the body consciousness itself is an element of essence, therefore an aspect of essence which is remaining within physical focus.
DREW: That would be a subjective thing though, wouldn’t it?
DREW: Body consciousness? Isn’t consciousness a subjective ...
ELIAS: There is subjective AND objective. Your body consciousness is an objective awareness. It is an objective manifestation; objective imagery.
DREW: Which requires some subjective interaction.
ELIAS: To be continuing, yes.
DREW: So it is both subjective and objective.
ELIAS: No. It requires subjective direction to be functioning.
DREW: Right. Hmm! Well, how can anything be objective if there is not subjective ...
ELIAS: This is why it does not FUNCTION any longer when the subjective is removed for an extended time framework. It is an objective expression.
ELIAS: Of essence.
DREW: Which is a subjective action? I don’t want to say “thing.”
DREW: So there is subjective action?
ELIAS: No. (Laughter)
DREW: Well, how can anything be objective? Doesn’t the subjective come before the objective, in our terms?
ELIAS: No. They are simultaneous, but I am understanding of what you are expressing; but the objective is the imagery which is presented. All that you view within physical focus, all that presents itself as matter, is the objective expression.
DREW: Of subjective ...
DREW: Oh, I see.
ELIAS: It is not directing of its function, but it is an objective projection.
DREW: By whom?
DREW: Hmm! Well, I don’t want to belabor this. I’m sure other people have questions, but I ...
ELIAS: Let me express to you: Just as you create veils between your dimensions that you may not be penetrating – for you do not allow yourself to penetrate – as you choose to disengage physical focus, you create a veil between the objective and subjective expression of body consciousness. You remove the direction for its functioning. Therefore, it ceases to function. It remains as what you may view as an artifact, holding objective consciousness, for all of your matter holds consciousness. Therefore, it holds objective consciousness, for it continues to exist objectively, but it has no more interaction with subjective elements.
DREW: So the cells within the body, which hold their own consciousness ...
DREW: ... are not interacting subjectively with the personality that was directing it in the first place.
DREW: And those cells and the consciousness within those cells, the consciousness links within the body, are not interacting subjectively with ANY essence?
ELIAS: No. They are subjectively interacting within consciousness, but not linked to essence or personality.
NORM: And they can project themselves into objective existence?
ELIAS: They hold objective existence.
NORM: And they do not have to continuously project? Okay.
DREW: How can they be linked to consciousness, and yet not be interacting with essence? Because isn’t essence and consciousness one and the same?
ELIAS: It is, in one respect; but as I have stated, there is a distinction of personality within essence.
DREW: When the body deteriorates and the cells fall apart into dust, in our terms, the consciousness that was within the physical body itself goes where?
ELIAS: It is reconstructed in energy and is regenerated within essence.
DREW: Okay. There’s some kind of interaction between objective consciousness and essence that’s different from the subjective interaction ...
ELIAS: Of the focus. Correct.
DREW: Which I’ll need to explore another time with you because this is something new to me. It’s a different type of interaction.
DREW: Hmm! Does it have anything to do with the projection of the other people observing the body?
DREW: Okay. Thank you.
ELIAS: For as their attention also, in alignment with the individual focus which has disengaged, complies with that individual’s belief systems, they also hold an aspect of their attention within that expression.
If you are choosing to be annihilating your physical form through fire, individuals remaining or continuing within physical focus are in agreement to your choice. Therefore, your expression is not lent energy ... your physical expression is not lent energy by individuals about you. If you are choosing to be mummified, your expression is lent energy to remain within the objective physical matter, for the attention is held by other individuals also.
DREW: If that explained it completely, I would understand! But it’s that part of consciousness that is somehow not subjectively interacting that I don’t understand, but I don’t want to spend more time on it tonight, so I’ll take a week to think about it.
ELIAS: Very well. These are difficult areas, for you do not quite understand all of the actions and elements of essence and consciousness and each focus, which hold many more aspects than you realize.
DREW: Okay, thank you.
NORM: I’d like to ask a question. Why was this dimension – the focuses with belief systems – created?
ELIAS: Why not?
NORM: There had to be some desire.
ELIAS: It is quite creative and allows you much to explore!
NORM: I mean, they were ... they hadn’t tried it before, of course, or had they? (Much laughter)
SUE: Experiment gone wrong! (Laughter)
JIM: Who’s “they?”
NORM: All the essences!
ELIAS: All of YOU! The “they” of the you!
NORM: I mean, it was a ... it seems to me that belief systems are duplicity in themselves. They can be constraints, or they can be very powerful.
ELIAS: They are your experience!
NORM: I know they are!
ELIAS: You hold many experiences in many different dimensions and focuses that are different.
NORM: I never thought of myself as a ball of belief systems before!
ELIAS: (Chuckling) You are ALL balls of belief systems within this particular dimension, for this is your creation!
NORM: Well, it’s just weird, that’s all! I mean, I could have thought of other things to do! (Much laughter)
ELIAS: You ARE thinking of other things to do!
NORM: What did he say?
VICKI: You ARE thinking of other things to do!
NORM: I know, but it’s just unusual. It’s unusual, I think, and I don’t why I think that, but I think it’s unusual that we did this particular number!
ELIAS: For you believe belief systems to be bad!
NORM: No! It’s that they are constraints, but they also hold a great deal of power. Am I saying that correctly?
ELIAS: Correct ... if you are choosing to believe this!
NORM: Well, I’m trying to believe the ones that have the power! We’re trying to get those that have the power!
JIM: They all have power.
NORM: Yeah, they all have power. They’re restrictive!
ELIAS: These are powerful, also!
JIM: These are belief systems also!
NORM: Oh, stop laughing, Vicki! (I was cracking up all through this exchange)
VICKI: It’s great! I love this!
HELEN: I have a question that doesn’t have to do with anything! (Laughter) I had a dream that I was pregnant and that I could see my belly, and that I was shot by a gun and that the hole went right in here. It didn’t hurt my baby, but I don’t even know what this dream was about. I thought maybe you could help me with it.
ELIAS: Ah, quite appropriate in discussing belief systems! (Grinning at Norm)
NORM: Alright ...
ELIAS: This would be imagery offered to yourself of the belief systems that you hold. Impregnation is powerful imagery of intimacy with yourself and elements that you hold very closely and that grow, and that are quite affecting of you and your focus. In this, you image these belief systems as the small one within you which occupies much space, and then you image being wounded but it affects not this small one within you, which is the imagery of your belief systems. This would be your imagery of attempting initially to be affecting of these belief systems, but the wound passes by the belief systems instead of penetrating.
HELEN: So my objective is to penetrate the belief systems?
ELIAS: To be connecting with and to be altering, and ultimately accepting.
HELEN: This is a failed attempt at that.
ELIAS: It is not a failure! It is a movement. You are expressing to yourself subjectively imagery to allow you an objective noticing that you are beginning to move in this direction.
HELEN: So that’s a positive thing?
ELIAS: Correct ... in your terms. (Smiling)
HELEN: Although there is no positive thing.
HELEN: I’m moving in the direction that I have chosen to move in.
HELEN: This is imagery that is proof of that.
HELEN: Thank you.
ELIAS: You are welcome.
NORM: Would it be true that people that work together have more counterpart action than those that are not associated from work?
NORM: It’s funny. In the last month-and-a-half or so, I’ve been stopped in the hall by people that I hardly know, and one said she had a dream about me. Then about a week ago, I think it was, I had a dream of somebody that I hardly know, and he had another office in the building and he was watching me spar or fight with someone, but I could never make it out who that someone was. I guess I was fighting with my belief systems and he was watching. Is that what that would be about? (Elias nods) Would I have counterpart action with him?
NORM: No? Why was he in my dream?
ELIAS: For you have imaged this individual. It does not mean that the individual is within your dream. The individual is merely an image that you create. (Pause)
NORM: Okay, alright.
VICKI: I have a question for Stella. Just so everybody knows, she had a pretty intense experience this week, and it’s a transitional experience that she’s been having. She started to feel quite a bit better throughout this week. She went back to work, and the spinning stopped. She said she still felt like she was looking through a veil, but she was able to function at her job and all that. I guess she called Ron today, and today she’s just as bad as she was last week, or at the beginning of this week, and she wants to know why.
ELIAS: For this be her drama! She is creating this for her own attention, within her need within this focus, so to speak, for her drama. She connects to the intensity of the emotional experience, much in a like manner to previous actions of Jeselle. It is unnecessary, but it also gains attention!
VICKI: Okay, I’ll pass it on.
JIM: A few years ago, I was one of the first that arrived at an automobile accident up on Hasley Canyon. There was a young woman named Christie, and at the time I viewed there was nothing that I could have done for her. I got the strong impression that she was dead, and nothing was really going to bring her back. Lately, this story has kind of come over my mind the last few months, and I was wondering perhaps why, or what made that imagery or the impression. What I did at the time when I saw her there was just kind of open myself up to energy in a helping way, I believe with no expectation.
ELIAS: And this be your answer, why you are presenting yourself with this imagery; for this be an issue that you hold, of lending energy with no expectation, and that in this you have been presented with death many times in holding an expectation.
JIM: So in that instance, I did not.
JIM: Okay, good. Thank you.
ELIAS: You are welcome.
BOBBI: A question on expectations, then. Aren’t some expectations necessary?
ELIAS: We have discussed this previously. There is a difference in holding an expectation, so to speak, with a knowing, and merely holding an expectation but not holding the sureness of that expectation.
BOBBI: Okay, so if you have an impression of something and act on it, and in that sureness of your impression ...
BOBBI: It’s not exactly an expectation?
ELIAS: It IS a type of expectation which is beneficial to your creating of your reality; not that the other type of expectation is not beneficial to your creating of your reality, for it offers you information also. But in your creating of what you WANT or what you WISH, if you are holding an expectation with a knowing and no doubtfulness, you shall create this. If you are holding expectation but you are not believing in your expectation, you very likely shall NOT be creating of the materialization of your expectation, for you allow your belief systems to block the materialization.
BOBBI: Okay. I think I was kind of messing with that this week, and it seems like I can kind of ... it had to be very light. I don’t know. It’s hard to explain. If I could concentrate and expect kind of in a very light way and not glom onto it, it would work.
BOBBI: Yes, that was the word. Okay. I couldn’t ignore it entirely. That didn’t work either, and that’s what brought up the question of expectation. I did have a desired outcome ...
ELIAS: You hold a desire, but you also do not force the energy within the desire, that if you are not creating of this desire you shall create much disappointment. As you move into the area of “it matters not” and you retain your playfulness, your desire becomes more important than the expectation.
BOBBI: So desire and expectation are different things?
BOBBI: Okay, thanks.
ELIAS: You are welcome.
We shall be discontinuing this evening, and I shall be anticipating our next meeting. To you all this evening, I bid you much fondness and an affectionate adieu.
Elias departs at 8:50 PM.
© 1997 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.