the Elias forum: Explore the transcript archive.










Saturday, October 23, 1999

<  Session 491 (Private/Phone)  >

“Paramahansa Yogananda”

“Beliefs: Karma”

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Rodney (Zacharie).

Elias arrives at 1:52 PM. (Arrival time is 15 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good afternoon, Zacharie!

RODNEY: Good afternoon, Elias! How are you?

ELIAS: Ha ha! As always!

RODNEY: (Laughing) I love that answer! (Elias chuckles) Mary and I just talked for over an hour. It’s almost like I used up all my time talking to her instead of talking to you!

ELIAS: HA HA! And Michael expresses that I may be long-winded! (Rodney cracks up, and Elias chuckles)

RODNEY: Well, you’re not the only one who likes to talk! (Laughing)

There’s a couple of questions I have. When you told me that I had 1014 focuses ... I want to ask you if I understand this correctly. My essence has had 1014 focuses on this planet, and that incorporates all time, and when I say this planet, I mean this dimension.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: And that’s the sum total of my essence experience on this planet, in this dimension.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Is that a correct understanding of what you’re saying?

ELIAS: Yes, you are correct.

RODNEY: Okay. Do I have other focuses on the planet at this time?


RODNEY: Approximately how many of those would be in existence today? (Pause)

ELIAS: You hold four focuses of essence within this time framework in totality; therefore, three other focuses of essence and yourself.

RODNEY: I see. Three others, and me. My understanding is that we rarely get to meet these other focuses, and I assume that’s true of myself. I do not know any of these other three, do I?

ELIAS: You are correct.

RODNEY: Would there be any value in my knowing approximately who and where they are? I’m kind of curious about it.

ELIAS: The value may be merely in the satisfaction of your curiosity, but not necessarily in the affectingness of yourself within this particular focus.

I shall express to you that as always, it may be beneficial to any individual to be availing themselves of information in the direction of any of their focuses, regardless that they be within the same time framework, for any information that you offer to yourself within any time framework offers you more of an understanding of yourself and of essence and of the whole of you, so to speak.

But as to the direct affectingness [of] any of these other focuses [that] may be engaged with you yourself within this particular time framework, they may not be quite as affecting objectively of you as those focuses which may be held in other time frameworks which hold more of a similarity in tone to yourself.

RODNEY: Okay. That’s what I was curious about – whether or not the ones who are present in this present moment would not have a greater ease of transmitting information and energy back and forth with me, for instance.

ELIAS: Not necessarily.

RODNEY: You’re saying it may be just the opposite. I may have a greater affinity to focuses in other time periods.

ELIAS: Quite.

Let me also express to you that in this subject matter, were you to physically meet objectively another focus of your essence from a different time framework that holds a similarity in tone to yourself, you would most probably experience a type of affinity in relation to that individual. You would hold an immediate identification, and you would experience a type of draw to that individual.

Whereas were you to physically, objectively meet another focus of your essence which is manifest within this same time framework now, you would not necessarily objectively recognize that same affinity.

You may objectively pass by that individual and experience no draw to them, for the tone is slightly different. The directions, generally speaking, are quite different, for it is more efficient for essence to be focusing different manifestations within one time framework in very different directions. This offers diversity within experiences.

It would be quite redundant for the essence to be focusing several manifestations or focuses of itself within one time framework that are all experiencing very similar directions and assimilating very similar experiences.

RODNEY: I understand that. Could you tell me where one of these other three is, maybe the most dissimilar, just to satisfy my curiosity? Maybe the location on the planet?

ELIAS: One other physical manifestation which holds a very dissimilar direction to yourself is physically manifest within the location of the continent of Africa.

RODNEY: Okay. Is it a man or a woman?

ELIAS: Male.

RODNEY: Male. What’s he interested in? (Pause)

ELIAS: Objective direction is quite limited to the physical experiences that are created by himself and within a very small sphere of other individuals which occupy his same tribe, so to speak.


ELIAS: There is a tremendous direction of focusing attention in the area of physical expressions.

RODNEY: Alright. There’s not much contemplation.


RODNEY: Okay, it’s more immediate.

ELIAS: Your assessment within your belief systems would be to evaluate that this individual’s existence is quite boring!

RODNEY: Okay! (Laughing) Alright!

ELIAS: (Chuckling) Although his perception of his manifestation is not, but this would be your assessment of his existence, so to speak.

RODNEY: Okay. I find that fascinating.

Now, do I get any information from him? Does my knowing that he exists ... I would like to send him good energy or think about him with good energy. Will that have any impact on him? Also, is it possible that I would receive information from him in any of my dreams ... that I would know about?

ELIAS: It is not a question of possibility, for as in all of your reality, any direction or creation is possible. It is improbable, for generally speaking – although there are rare exceptions, but generally speaking within this physical dimension – essence does not manifest several focuses simultaneously and create an interaction objectively between them.

RODNEY: It’s just that immediately upon you telling me that he exists, I immediately feel something akin to a brotherly relationship with him, and of course, that’s my limited concept of what’s totally going on here.

ELIAS: This is quite understandable, I shall express to you, but be realizing that you and this other focus – and the other focuses that are manifest within this same time framework – have been creating your realities quite efficiently to this point without objective knowledge of each other! (Grinning)

RODNEY: (Laughing) No doubt, yes!

ELIAS: And you shall continue to be creating each of your realities quite efficiently without objective interaction with each other.

You do, in like manner to all of the focuses of essence, influence and lend energy to each other continuously, for you are all the same essence. Therefore, there is a continuous movement of energy between all of you, but this is not necessarily influencing objectively to the extent that other focuses may be which hold similar tone to yourself.

RODNEY: Okay. Thank you, sir.

ELIAS: You are very welcome.

RODNEY: I want to know if you were playing a game with me the other day. I was driving down the highway and I caught myself engaged in a thought that was not as constructive as I would like it to have been. I began to caution myself about that, and then I heard a thought come through my head that said “it does not matter,” or I think I said “it matters not,” and at the same time I glanced over at the car in front of me, and the beginning of its license plate was the letter “Y” and the letter “A,” which says “ya.” And I thought immediately that you put that license plate there just so I could see it.

ELIAS: (Grinning) I did not place the object before you, but I shall express to you that I have been interactive with you to be offering energy in helpfulness, that you may notice objective imagery that shall reinforce the message that you have offered to yourself, in agreement with the message that you have offered to yourself, in “it matters not.”

Let me express to you, Zacharie, that many individuals, and at times yourself also, move in the direction of aligning with an underlying aspect of karma, which couples itself with aspects of duplicity.

As you create a thought process or a feeling or an expression and you allow yourself to express any of these elements in a manner that you assess as negative, you also move in the direction quite often, to a point, of turning your attention immediately to what you have just expressed, and you create an expression within yourself that you must change that expression, for that was bad or unacceptable or unkind, and in that moment, you believe that you may retract the energy that you have already expressed, and therefore it shall not return to you and create a conflict with you.

Now; I express to you that there is no karma. Therefore, it matters not. The expression has been offered, and it is the expression that it is.

RODNEY: Okay, and just let it go.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: It matters not.

ELIAS: You place more energy into the perpetuation of the expression that you wish to not be creating by concentrating upon it and by attempting to “undo what you have done.”

RODNEY: Thank you, sir, for pointing that out!

ELIAS: In this, it matters not. What you have created has been created, and it is merely a choice and an expression of yourself within that moment.

RODNEY: Thank you very much.

ELIAS: You are quite welcome, my friend.

RODNEY: That’s most helpful to hear you say that. There’s a couple other things I’d like to go over with you today, and because I talked for so terribly long with Mary, I would rather our session be shorter than longer.

You gave me the name, family, and alignment of some gentlemen in my men’s group, and I want to write this up and present it to them. One of the things that happened is that there are five other gentlemen who were not included in the information that you gave me, and I want them to be included, and I was hoping that you might favor me with that information about them. These are individuals that I did not share another focus with. Could you do that?

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: The first individual, his initial is R.N. The is the man who, in the focus that I had in Greece, he had a focus at that time also, but we did not know each other. Could you give me his name, family, and alignment?

ELIAS: Essence name, Ethan; E-T-H-A-N.

RODNEY: Is that E-P as in Peter?


RODNEY: T as in Tom?

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: H-A-N as in Nancy?

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: And what is his family?

ELIAS: Essence family, Zuli; alignment, Vold.

RODNEY: Thank you. The next one is very important for me. His initials are J.R. (Pause)

ELIAS: Essence name, Stanley.

RODNEY: Stanley, like S-T-A-N-E-L-Y? Or L-E-Y?

ELIAS: L-E-Y. Essence family, Tumold; alignment, Ilda.

RODNEY: Ilda. The next one is K.M., M as in mother. (Pause)

ELIAS: Essence name, Christine.

RODNEY: Christine with a C or a K?

ELIAS: C. Essence family, Gramada; alignment, Sumari.

RODNEY: Sumari?

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: The next one is V as in Victor, R as in Robert. (Pause)

ELIAS: Essence name, Caff; C-A-F-F. (coff) Essence family, Sumari; alignment, Sumafi.

RODNEY: And the last one is D.G.

ELIAS: Essence name, Keri; K-E-R-I. Essence family, Ilda; alignment, Milumet.

RODNEY: Milumet?

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: The individual whose initials are J.R., we have a tendency very, very frequently to have a completely opposite impression on something. It’s almost as though we rarely see things fundamentally that are in any way similar. It’s kind of like, he keeps me on my toes, because he shows me so clearly that mine is not the only perception. Outside of the relationship that we have right now, have I ever had a relationship with this individual in any other lifetime, or are we related in any other way that I don’t know about?

ELIAS: You do hold other focuses with this individual, but I shall also express to you that this individual also occupies that same time framework in another focus in conjunction to the focus that you have inquired of, in Greece.

RODNEY: Oh, he knew the other individual?

ELIAS: No. This individual occupied a different culture and a different physical location. This individual creates a reality in conjunction with what you describe as the Roman empire.

Now; this, and also a difference in manifestation within this particular focus ...

RODNEY: You’re talking about today?

ELIAS: Correct.

... in choice of orientation, are two very influencing factors, so to speak, in the dynamic which is created between you.

RODNEY: His being Tumold/Ilda, and my being Sumafi/Sumari?

ELIAS: No. These are choices of families and alignments. I am speaking to the choice of orientation.

RODNEY: Oh! What is his orientation?

ELIAS: This individual holds the orientation of soft.

RODNEY: He does? Wow! Okay. People with an orientation of soft, as I understand it, are very sensitive to what’s going on in the world, and feel an emotional connection with that. That is correct, isn’t it?

ELIAS: In most manifestations, yes. Many individuals holding this orientation, I may express to you, block the natural flow of that expression, for it is not in alignment with the officially accepted societal belief systems.

RODNEY: I was just gonna ask you that. Does this individual block that energy?

ELIAS: Yes, at times.

RODNEY: At times. Is this because it would come over strongly for him?

ELIAS: Not necessarily. It is an alignment with the belief systems which are held en masse in the projection of specific personas that are expected within your society, and in this, there is not created an allowance for the natural flow of energy in the recognition of that particular orientation.

Now; the expression of these individuals holding the orientation of soft is not always manifest in conjunction to emotional expression. Many times this may be the choice of how it shall be expressed, but it is not necessarily the rule, so to speak.

The commonality is the recognition of the interconnectedness objectively of all of your planet that these individuals experience, and the exhibition of interaction in relationships continuously. This is a very strong objective manifestation of individuals holding the orientation of soft.

These individuals do not create their reality singularly or outside of relationships with other individuals. They do not generally move in the direction of creating a reality individually, for this creates tremendous conflict within themselves.

RODNEY: I believe that I create my reality to a large extent individually.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Independent of my relationships with other people.

ELIAS: You create differently.

RODNEY: And you’re saying that when he creates his reality, he does so with a deep connection from his relationships with other people?

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: I feel that’s very true of him, what you just said.

ELIAS: This is quite influencing within the manifestation and within the creation of his reality.

Individuals that hold the orientation of soft may be blocking of their natural expression, but in this one particular area, in blocking their interconnectedness objectively with other individuals, in creating relationships continuously with other individuals, they create tremendous conflict within themselves.

What I am expressing to you is that their function within this reality is quite hindered if they are isolating themselves and not creating a reality in conjunction with other individuals. These individuals do not function well, in your terms, singularly.

RODNEY: This man is a very, very successful salesman. He sees a lot of people, he knows a lot of people, he travels, he meets them. I’m struck by his connectedness to his family, which is very large, and he does maintain those relationships. And what you’re saying is that this is good for him, that if he were to attempt to lead the solitary life that I do, it would create very significant conflict for him.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Most interesting. Is there anyone else in my men’s group – I think you know them by now – who are of the orientation of soft?


RODNEY: One individual that you talked about some time ago, his initials are P, I think it’s N, is he an intermediate?


RODNEY: And I expect that he is the only intermediate.

ELIAS: Yes, you are correct.

RODNEY: Am I correct on that?


RODNEY: Oh! I just patted myself on the back, Elias! (They both laugh) Thank you so much.

ELIAS: You are very welcome.

RODNEY: I think these gentlemen will be most curious about our discussions when I get this all in one place. Elias, may I call you doctor for a moment? (Laughing)

ELIAS: If you are so choosing.

RODNEY: I’ve got a situation that’s developed, and I’ve got a small clue as to what it is. I’ve been creating swelling in my toes – not the very small toe, but the one next to it – and a soreness along the base of my toes. This has been going on for weeks and weeks and weeks. I notice that toes are very necessary for maintaining one’s balance. The fact that I’m creating soreness in my toes, does that have anything to do with my sense of balance? I’d like to know why I’m creating this.

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, yes, it is connected to an element of balance, for what you are attempting to bring to your attention is to be noticing within yourself that you hold a desire to be slowing your activity and your motion, and allowing more of a relaxation within your movement in your focus.

Therefore, you project energy to your physical feet, which is your imagery to yourself of movement, and you create a situation in which you are offering yourself information to be slowing your movement physically, which shall allow you more freedom, and this shall allow you the ability to be balancing more efficiently.

RODNEY: Okay. I want to allow myself more relaxation and less movement. What I do with that information is, I go to a place where I want to redirect my attention to things other than I am doing now.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: I would like to spend more time in developing my self-awareness and in the pursuit of the kinds of things which you and I talk about.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Okay, and that’s what I’m doing with the toes?

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Okay. I am aware that I create an incredible number of distractions. (Elias laughs) And it’s like, you know, people marvel at how active I am, and the truth of the matter is, I’d like to slow down and be less active. (Elias chuckles) But it’s so easy for me to be on the move, so to speak. Okay, I thank you for that, sir.

ELIAS: You are quite welcome.

RODNEY: You know, I think we’ve covered a lot of territory. The woman – Lorraine – who arranged the last session for Mary down in South Jersey ...

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: ... have she and I ever engaged in another focus together? Have we ever been related in any way in another focus?

ELIAS: Yes, you have engaged in other focuses, although not in relationship, so to speak, with each other.

RODNEY: Okay. Were most of those focuses ... did we have kind of a casual relationship to each other, or were there areas that were more close than that?

ELIAS: I express to you that you hold two focuses in which you are acquaintances, objectively holding knowledge of each other, but do not interact with each other and do not create a relationship of friendship, and you also hold another focus in which you create a type of interaction which is adversarial to each other.

RODNEY: Adversarial?

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Okay. Was this in a military sense? I mean, were we fighting each other?

ELIAS: No, not within physical combat!

RODNEY: Oh, okay!

ELIAS: (Laughing) Although I may express to you that within that particular focus, there is an element of competition and conflict and what you term to be fighting in the competition, for you each occupy a position of merchants in which you are opposed to each other.

RODNEY: (Laughing) Thank you!

ELIAS: You are quite welcome.

RODNEY: I’m sure she’s going to be as interested in seeing that as I am! (Laughing)

I have one other large question. I don’t know how much time you want to spend on it. I’m halfway through a book called “Autobiography of a Yogi,” which was published in 1920, more or less – I’m not exactly sure when it was published – and it’s been almost on the best-seller list ever since, which is a very long time, and the yogi in question is – I hope I pronounce this correctly – Paramahansa Yogananda.

And in this book, he talks about phenomena which you say is readily possible, and which people like myself in the western world find rather unlikely. Part of their training as a yogi is the ability to withdraw from any of the five senses that we normally use – in other words, seeing or hearing – they completely turn that off and on at will. They also relate in this book that those who have achieved the highest levels of their art can readily manifest material objects from ... I’ll call it the plasma of reality, the nonphysical plasma or pure energy, and they can also do such things as what would be referred to as miraculous healings, and manifest themselves in more than one place at the same time.

These are very remarkable achievements, and I put a great deal of belief in that what he is relating here is really true. The things that he relates, he personally experiences. I don’t think I doubt their validity. What I am asking concerns the training that he and people like him go through in order to develop these abilities. My understanding is that this training consumes a considerable amount of time and energy, and it takes a good number of years.

I’ve also noticed that it’s couched in a very different set of beliefs than we are accustomed to holding in our western culture. For instance, I understand that being a vegetarian is very, very important to the development of these powers, and there are other beliefs – I can’t relate them at the moment – that are somewhat foreign to our way of thinking.

I think basically the question I have for you is, is it possible to develop that level of ability utilizing different training, or is what they’re doing and what they’re saying extremely unique, and that’s the only way that you could develop those abilities, is to go through the training that they suggest is necessary? I guess that’s my question.

ELIAS: I express to you that this training or this process is not the only method or means by which you may be creating the very same actions.

I am also expressing to you presently that you may be creating these same wonders, so to speak, merely by allowing yourself to widen your awareness and in the genuine acceptance and trust of self.

I have been expressing this concept to you all from the onset of this forum, that you need not be engaging the formality and the intensity of these methods or this type of training. You may engage this if you are so choosing, and you may accomplish all that you view as wondrous in the manifestation of that type of method, but it is not necessary. It is not the only means in which you may attain the same actions.

RODNEY: Thank you, sir.

ELIAS: You are quite welcome.

RODNEY: Because as much as I admire this individual and admire what he’s accomplished, there’s no question. He makes it very clear. For instance, he talks about super-consciousness, and he clearly states that an individual who would experience super-consciousness who has not gone through the training and who has not purified himself by the training would actually kill himself by allowing that much energy into his physical body, and I found that a rather strong statement, and what I hear you saying is that this is not necessarily so.

ELIAS: Let me clarify in this.

I shall express to you that if you are not widening your awareness and if you are not allowing yourself to be opening your awareness within consciousness, within this physical dimension you may be creating of quite uncomfortable responses within your physical focus.

Let me clarify in this area.

The manifestations that these individuals produce within physical focus, all of you hold the ability to be producing, and you need not hold any particular extensive method to be accomplishing those actions.

In the exchange of physical and nonphysical energies, which is incorporated into the philosophy of this particular individual and the followers of this individual, you may be engaging a very different type of action as you limit yourself to physical reality.

You may be creating of any of these manifestations that you now view as wondrous, and you may be accomplishing this without tremendous methodology, so to speak. These are natural abilities that you hold that you have merely forgotten and have blocked from your objective awareness.

Now; in a discussion of interaction of physical and nonphysical energies in relation to consciousness, and the interaction of physical and nonphysical energies of essences and exchanges of energies, this is a very different subject matter, and more of your time framework is required to be offering an adequate explanation as to what may be occurring in that type of an exchange.

In this, you shall not necessarily disengage or disintegrate, so to speak, but you may be encountering what you would term to be severe disruptions within your physical manifestation and a strong creation of discomfort.

RODNEY: In this phenomenon, when you talk about the interchange of physical and nonphysical energies, is this involved when he discusses his experience of a oneness? He uses the term “a oneness with God.”

ELIAS: This is the translation. This is....

RODNEY: Because when he uses that term, he actually says that he becomes one with everything in the universe, and he’s talking about consciously being aware that he is one with everything.

ELIAS: Quite.

Now; this also is a slightly different type of actual action than of what I am speaking, but the individual held a physical, objective awareness that within the interaction of nonphysical elements of consciousness, incorporating that into a physical dimension, there may be severe physical affectingnesses that occur.

In this, some of those affectingnesses may be diverted as you allow yourself to open to your individual awareness within the physical dimension, and allow yourself an openness to the movement of energy within consciousness.

There are methods, so to speak, in which you – as an individual within physical focus – may be allowing yourself an indirect experience incorporated into physical focus.

A direct exchange and mergence shall be physically affecting, for your physical body consciousness is not designed within this physical dimension to incorporate that type of action.

RODNEY: Okay, but that is the action that Yogananda....

ELIAS: Not entirely.

The action that he has allowed himself to engage is an INDIRECT interaction with other elements of consciousness and with essence.

We shall discuss this futurely in a time framework that may allow for more of an explanation of this type of action, for this is requiring of much more of an explanation.

RODNEY: I thank you very much, sir.

ELIAS: You are quite welcome.

RODNEY: And I will be better prepared!

ELIAS: Ha ha! You have been adequately prepared presently!

RODNEY: Thank you, sir! (Laughing)

ELIAS: You are welcome.

RODNEY: I think our time is up. I was gonna call it shorter, and I seem to have forgotten.

ELIAS: It matters not.

RODNEY: Thank you.

ELIAS: I express to you great affection, and I anticipate our continued interaction.

RODNEY: Thank you, Elias.

ELIAS: To you this day, Zacharie, I offer, very lovingly, au revoir.

RODNEY: Au revoir.

Elias departs at 2:56 PM.

< Previous session | Go to the top | Next session >

© 1999 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.