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  Session 1298 (Private/Phone)  

“Your Subjective Awareness Is Not Controlling You, My Friend”

“Attention Is Not Thought”

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Steve.

(Elias’ arrival time is 17 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good morning!

STEVE: Elias! Where’d you come from? (Elias laughs) Outer space. This is Steve L., again, in Orange. You might remember me from several weeks ago. I’m the man that has the... By the way, how is your memory? Do I have to refresh your memory?

ELIAS: I am aware of who you are.

STEVE: Do you have a photographic memory, or do you forget some of the details of each conversation, you talk to so many people?

ELIAS: (Laughs) I am not limited by the constraints of memory as you may be within physical focus.

STEVE: By the way, let me tell you something that you may not know, because I guess you said you’re not, what do they call it, on a mission, right? You’re not a “mission,” right?

ELIAS: Correct.

STEVE: So anyway, let me tell you something that I’ll bet you don’t know. I told you last time that I have this I call it a factor in my blood. I don’t know if that’s specifically exactly what it is, like a protein factor in the blood. Let’s say that’s what it is, just hypothetically. When my immune system is being stimulated, it causes muscle contraction in my throat to the exact same degree as the stimulation, and that’s how I found this cotton ball in the ear trick.

But anyway, when I listen to your voice, it stimulates my immune system to a slightly better degree or at least as good or maybe even better than the cotton ball. I was able to cure a cold in a matter of like a few minutes just by listening to your voice. That triggers this healing mechanism that all of us have within us that’s triggered in a number of different ways, usually ways that we evolved around, such as creating negative ions from plants or being in the fetal position. But your voice does it too, and your voice, therefore, on a tape, would have the ability to just about wipe out infectious disease worldwide. I thought you might be interested in hearing that. What do you have to say about that? You didn’t know you were so powerful, did you?

ELIAS: (Laughs) It is an energy exchange, my friend, and it is a vibrational quality, but it is also the choice of the individual to be incorporating that vibrational quality and receiving it in a manner in which they choose to be incorporating it into their reality...

STEVE: When you say “I choose,” I didn’t choose that consciously. My thoughts didn’t choose that, because I didn’t know it was going to happen.

ELIAS: Thought does not choose.

STEVE: Talking about my subjective?

ELIAS: Let me offer explanation to you, my friend. Thought is a mechanism that you incorporate objectively to translate information, but it does not create your reality, it does not precede your reality, and it does not choose.

STEVE: Are my thoughts part of my objective awareness or is that a third category?

ELIAS: Thought is an aspect of your objective awareness. It is a mechanism. It is a tool that you incorporate to translate information, but it does not engage the action of choice. It merely translates information. This is its function. Therefore, regardless of what you think or whether you are paying attention to your thoughts is not an indication of what you are actually choosing.

STEVE: So you’re saying that either some aspect of my objective awareness other than thought or my subjective awareness is the one who chose to allow your voice to stimulate my immune system. Is that correct?

ELIAS: Correct.

STEVE: Let me ask you this. When you say that I create a disease, you’re not speaking of my thoughts, then, are you?

ELIAS: No.

STEVE: So when you say that I wanted to have that disease... I mean, it just seemed to me all along... I read it, I go, “This is nuts; I don’t want this!” But I only think with my thoughts, and I don’t really have control, that I know of, over my subjective awareness. So if it’s my subjective awareness that’s creating this disease, then I don’t really understand how my thoughts are going to change that. I mean, this thing has a head of its own. I don’t control that thing with my thoughts. You have all these mechanisms that you describe on changing our belief systems and all that sort of thing, but what good does it do if our subjective awareness is playing its own tune?

ELIAS: It is not, and it is not hidden from you. It is not another aspect of you that is, in your terms, beyond your control, and it is also not generating actions or choices that are contrary to you or that you are unaware of. It is a merely a matter of attention.

Now; I agree that many times individuals, yourself also, are not objectively aware of what they are actually choosing, but this is not for the reason that those choices are hidden from you or that there is some aspect of yourself that is creating a reality for you that you are not privy to. It is a matter of attention, and that you do not pay attention to what you actually do.

STEVE: Well, all right, fine, but I still don’t understand how I’m going to change what my subjective awareness wants as far as this disease by changing any of my thoughts or beliefs. I don’t hear anything from you yet that tells me how that’s going to work, because if my subjective awareness wants me to have this disease so that I’ll learn the ethics of... Well, I’m sorry, that’s not a good example in this case, is it? If it wants me to have a disease to experience, how am I going to change its mind about that by my thoughts?

ELIAS: You cannot, for thought does not change action. Thought does not change anything. Thought translates; this is its function. It does not create.

STEVE: How do you tell people to examine their beliefs and accept themselves and all that? That’s thought!

ELIAS: No, that is not thought.

STEVE: Well, you never made that clear in any of your writings that I’ve read so far. I’m glad to know that.

ELIAS: Thought is not a creating mechanism and...

STEVE: You’re saying to accept myself and to examine my beliefs, and I’ll bet you a hundred dollars that every single person who has read your writings thinks that you’re referring to their thoughts. Don’t you think that’s what they think?

ELIAS: No, I do not.

STEVE: I’ll bet you they do, because that’s what I thought when I read it.

ELIAS: I may express to you, I have offered quite clear information concerning the mechanism of thought and have explained to individuals that thought does not create their reality.

Now; I am understanding that you may not necessarily be privy to that information yet, for much of that information is not within the transcriptions available to the populace, so to speak, but...

STEVE: Well, I shouldn’t quibble about that, anyway; that’s not my point. So we’re at the point now, Elias, where I now understand that you do not want us to change our thoughts about our belief systems or accepting of self, or whether or not we believe some action we’re going to take is going to be effective and therefore it will be. I mean, see, you got people out there... I read these websites like the Eliasforum.org that describe how they try to practice what you want them to practice, and they’ll go there, they’ll say, “I keep saying it over and over...” So if it’s not what you want, for us to say well, gee, I’m really going to try to believe this works, or I’m going to accept myself more, or I’m going to not judge people and therefore I’ll be accepting of a certain belief system, if we’re not going to be doing that with our thoughts, I don’t have any other mechanism to do anything but my thoughts, Elias. I don’t control anything else that’s inside of me, like my subjective awareness or the part of my objective awareness other than my thoughts. I don’t control that; I don’t know of any way to control it.

ELIAS: (Gently) Ah, but my friend, you do.

STEVE: Tell me how.

ELIAS: By paying attention in different manners. You pay attention to your thought mechanism, and it may merely offer you a translation of information that you offer to it. Therefore, it is not always accurate, and it is not always complete. This is the reason that I offer information to you concerning moving your attention. Your attention is not thought, either.

Now; let me offer you an example. Every individual within your reality may be aware of time frameworks in which they move their attention away from thought and engage actions and experiences which involve no thought at all.

STEVE: Say that again, please.

ELIAS: The individual may generate experiences that involve no thoughts.

Now; this is not to say...

STEVE: Really? How in the world do I do that, exactly?

ELIAS: In moving your attention to other directions, other...

STEVE: Move my attention with my thoughts?

ELIAS: No, thought is not attention. Attention is independent of thought.

STEVE: How can I move my attention with something other than thought, if the only tool that I know of that I have is thought? I don’t have a tool to move attention with anything other than my thought, Mary.

ELIAS: (Smiling) Yes, you do incorporate the ability to move attention.

STEVE: How do I do that? And by the way, when you say “paying attention,” you’re talking about my thoughts there, aren’t you?

ELIAS: No. Attention is not thought.

STEVE: How do I pay attention to the cues that are coming into my objective other than through my thoughts? In other words, you list a few things that do that, like impulse, intuition. Those are things that the thoughts pick up and do.

ELIAS: No. What actually occurs is you generate communications in many, many different manners, and you translate those communications with the mechanism of thought.

Now; I am not expressing to you that you cease to engage all thinking, for thinking is a valuable tool for it does translate your information that you offer to yourself through communications. But if you are not paying attention to the communications, you also do not translate accurately within thought.

Now; the manner in which you move your attention is to move your attention to what you do, rather than what you think concerning what you do.

STEVE: Say that again, please.

ELIAS: Move your attention to what you do, the actions that you incorporate, rather than holding your attention upon what you think you do.

STEVE: Now, you just said pay attention to what I do. In other words, you want me to if I turn on the TV set.

ELIAS: Correct.

STEVE: But Mary, you’re telling me to do that with my thoughts, with my conscious mind...

ELIAS: No... (Grins)

STEVE: ...with the mind that I walk around with all day. Are you saying that to pay attention to the fact that I turn on the TV set... Well, I know that, because I’m sitting here doing it with my thinking mind, and you’re saying no, that’s not what you mean.

ELIAS: Correct! This is not what I am meaning.

STEVE: Well, how else could I know that I turned it on without my brain, we’ll call it? Without exercising my brain, and saying did I just turn the TV on? Yes, I did.

ELIAS: Now; let us incorporate this example.

STEVE: Am I being too hard on you?

ELIAS: No. (Laughs) Let us incorporate this example. You may move across your room, and you may turn on your television. Prior to the action of actually turning on your television, you did not express to yourself within a thought, “I am now walking across my room. I am now turning on my television.” No, you merely incorporate the action.

STEVE: But my brain is what was working in all cases, even though I wasn’t saying Step A, step out of the bed. I mean, you just kind of like do it by automatic pilot...

ELIAS: Correct!

STEVE: ...but you’re still directing it.

ELIAS: But this is not being directed by thought. It is being directed by you and by your attention, and responding to impulses in association with an action that you want to incorporate, but your thinking is not being engaged.

STEVE: If I’m having a conversation in a bar, like I will be tonight, I’m listening to what the person says, it’s going into my brain, and I’m going, let’s see, what’s a clever reply to this? All that’s done with my thinking brain, right? Or would you say no?

ELIAS: I would express to you, no. You are engaging thought processes and you are paying attention to what you are thinking, but not all of what you are doing is associated with what you are thinking.

STEVE: So there’s this part of me that I don’t seem to be aware of in my conscious mind that is the true operator here, right?

ELIAS: (Sighs) Let me express to you, you incorporate five outer senses. You also incorporate inner senses. You also incorporate impulses and intuition, impressions, imagination and emotion. These are all avenues of communication that you offer...

STEVE: Just a minute, Mary. I’m writing this down. (Pause) Avenues of communication from what to what?

ELIAS: They are all avenues of communication that you incorporate from the subjective awareness to the objective awareness.

STEVE: Okay, so I’ve got emotion, impulse, intuition, did you say?

ELIAS: Yes. Impressions, body consciousness, inner senses, outer senses.

You may be incorporating an action of smelling a flower, and you may not necessarily think any thought concerning the flower but merely engage the action of smelling the flower and viewing the flower, and no thought may occur to you. The reason that you incorporate no thought in that moment is that your attention has moved. It is not concentrated upon the mechanism of thought but is engaging an action and offering an input of information.

Now; subsequent to the action, you may move your attention to thought, and you may express within your thoughts to yourself this flower incorporates a pleasant fragrance. That is an interpretation. That is a translation in thought of the action that you have generated. Are you understanding?

STEVE: Let me stipulate to what you were saying and then ask the follow-up question. I still don’t seem to have any technique in... Let me ask an even more basic question. I’ll get back to just because I’m paying attention more to these communications, what good does that do? I don’t change anything in the actions of my subjective awareness just because I’m paying attention to what it’s saying more. It’s still doing what it’s doing, its own thing, isn’t it?

ELIAS: No. As you pay attention more clearly to the actual communications that you are expressing and you pay attention to what you do, for what you do is what you choose, therefore, it is quite significant to pay attention to what you actually do and the communications that you offer to yourself, for this offers you information concerning what influences you within your beliefs that creates your propensity to generate certain actions or certain choices.

Now; in this, as you offer yourself more information in association with your beliefs, which are continuously influencing your choices, you also...

STEVE: Which part of me has the beliefs, objective or subjective?

ELIAS: Both. You are not two individuals, my friend. You are one individual. You incorporate two awarenesses that merely generate different functions, so to speak, but they are all you.

STEVE: Okay, Mary, I didn’t full grasp what you said after I asked my question. So if you could just roll it again on the question of. just because I’m more aware of what my subjective is doing or thinking or intending at any certain point, how does that change what my subjective awareness does the next few minutes or days?

ELIAS: For in paying attention, you become more aware objectively, and you incorporate a greater understanding of what influences you. In that, you alter your perception, and perception is what actually creates your reality.

STEVE: I alter my perception. I don’t alter the perception of my subjective awareness, do I?

ELIAS: Perception is an objective expression. Your subjective awareness is not controlling you, my friend.

STEVE: It’s not?

ELIAS: NO. It moves in harmony with your objective...

STEVE: Hold up, Mary. You said my subjective awareness, last week, was creating the body consciousness.

ELIAS: It DIRECTS your body consciousness.

STEVE: So, it’s the one controlling it, right?

ELIAS: No. This is what I am expressing to you, is that the objective and the subjective are not separated. One does not move without the other. (Transcriber’s note: as this conversation continues, Elias sounds more and more calm and gentle.)

STEVE: So the objective goes along with it, but it isn’t the one that instigates it, right?

ELIAS: One does not FOLLOW the other. They are both moving simultaneously in the same direction. One is not controlling the other; one is not following the other; one is not instructing the other. They are moving together.

STEVE: When you say “alter your perception,” you’re directing that toward the objective, aren’t you?

ELIAS: Correct.

STEVE: Well, then, according to what you just said, they should both be perceiving at the same time, the same stuff.

ELIAS: Correct, yes.

STEVE: You’re breaking up now, and you’re going you change your perception of your objective and that’s going to change the way your subjective creates.

ELIAS: Correct.

STEVE: But it seems to be a contradiction of what you said earlier, that they are both creating at the same time, the same stuff.

ELIAS: You are quite correct. And if you are paying attention, you offer yourself clearer information. As you offer yourself clearer information, you DO change your perception and... STEVE: You’re saying that by changing our objective awareness perception, you’re going to change action of your subjective. Isn’t that what you said?

ELIAS: Correct. And they occur simultaneously, for they are not separated.

STEVE: You’re contradicting what you said before, in my opinion, that one does not follow the other. You’re saying now that the subjective would follow the perception of the other.

ELIAS: No. I am expressing to you that it occurs simultaneously. One does not follow the other.

STEVE: You’re saying that the objective could be in control of my getting rid of my disease by altering its perception, and therefore getting the subjective awareness to stop giving it to me. Is that what you’re saying?

ELIAS: No, for I am not expressing that your subjective awareness is separated from you. This is quite incorrect. It is not controlling, and it is not your enemy. It is NOT a separated entity from you. It IS you.

STEVE: Well, okay, it’s me, but you’re still saying that it can have its behavior changed by having my objective perceive differently.

ELIAS: Yes.

STEVE: So you can actually, by altering the perception of the objective, get the subjective to say to itself, “You know, I’ve been giving this guy this factor problem, blocking his psychic ability for 17 years, and I was going to continue to do that for another 5 years or more until he finally figured out what I want him to figure out. But because the objective went to the trouble of perceiving differently, I might change my mind about that and go along with him, with his subjective, on that and let this guy loose from this disease.” Now, is that basically what happens?

ELIAS: No. Listen to how you have presented this scenario, as though you are two individuals or as though this subjective awareness is some type of entity that is a force unseen that controls you, as an individual, and this is quite incorrect.

STEVE: It’s incorrect that the subjective awareness is a force that controls me?

ELIAS: Correct.

STEVE: Well, it creates the body consciousness. Of course it controls me, because without it I wouldn’t even breathe.

ELIAS: It INSTRUCTS the body consciousness, but this IS YOU. It is not an it; it is YOU.

STEVE: But that doesn’t get around the problem that you’re... Well, okay. The most important thing for me to learn is I’m trying to get rid of this so-called factor. You’re saying I can do that. First of all, do I need to get fancy with creating different perceptions of my objective, or can I just learn what it is that my subjective and objective want me learn? That is, not to use my psychic ability in a way that my subjective and objective consider to be unethical, such as to read someone’s thoughts in this bar tonight without their permission.

Is it enough that I learn all those ways that I might be screwing up with my psychic ability, arousing the disapproval of my subjective awareness? Is it enough that I do that and then I’m rid of this thing, rid of this factor that’s blocking it most of the time and is causing me a lot of problems like increased bone growth and suppressed neurotransmitter activity and muscle contraction in the throat and a whole stream of symptoms that it causes? You’re saying that I can get rid of all that. I mean, would you say that I can get rid of all that just by following the rules, learning and following the rules of the ethics of psychic behavior?

ELIAS: No.

STEVE: No?!

ELIAS: No.

STEVE: Well, last week we agreed that’s all I needed to do.

ELIAS: No, this is NOT what we discussed. What I discussed with you was what I am discussing with you now, and that is to be aware of what you are doing and to offer yourself information. I have expressed to you that yes, you may alter your physical expression. You do incorporate the ability, and I did express to you an explanation of the reason that you chose to be creating this dis-ease initially. But this is not to say that merely thinking concerning what you are generating or thinking about ethics shall alter your perception. It shall not.

STEVE: But I’m saying that not only would I think about it, but I wouldn’t do anything psychically or try to do anything psychically that was forbidden.

ELIAS: (Sighs) Let me express to you, my...

STEVE: That’s not going to be enough, I’m still going to have this disease even though I behave appropriately? Is that correct?

ELIAS: It is not a question of behaving appropriately, my friend. It is a question of your beliefs and the influence that they express in association with your perception. It is a question of paying attention to what you are actually communicating to yourself and what you are doing, paying attention to what you express to yourself in pay-off. What do you offer to yourself in continuing the dis-ease? What are you accomplishing in that expression of this dis-ease?

STEVE: Last week I described to you, or two weeks ago, I described to you... Let me ask you this. My subjective awareness is part of essence, is that correct?

ELIAS: Yes, as...

STEVE: Is the objective awareness part of essence?

ELIAS: Yes. They may not be separated. They are YOU.

STEVE: My thinking is not part of essence, is that correct?

ELIAS: Yes, for it is an objective expression of you.

STEVE: It is part of our essence or is not?

ELIAS: It is, for it is a mechanism associated with your physical manifestation. Your physical body is also an expression of essence.

STEVE: Well, all right. Let’s just take my subjective awareness. My subjective awareness, do I not understand, has in its possession, all knowledge of all things? Is that correct?

ELIAS: Not necessarily.

STEVE: Well, do I have as much knowledge of things as you do?

ELIAS: Yes, as essence, yes.

STEVE: So my subjective awareness, as I sit here in this bed, has as much knowledge of what things you talk about, what things you know, what things Seth knew.

ELIAS: No.

Now; that is AVAILABLE to you objectively and subjectively, as you are essence, and you do incorporate the same information, the same knowledge, the same awareness as any other essence and of all of consciousness. But the subjective awareness is an aspect of you, associated with this physical manifestation. It is associated with you, as this one focus of this one manifestation within your physical reality. It...

STEVE: But it is more limited than you?

ELIAS: Yes and no. Yes, in its present state of awareness. No, in its...

STEVE: What ways is it more limited at this time?

ELIAS: In association with beliefs.

STEVE: No, but I mean what is it that I can’t do that you can?

ELIAS: (Laughs) In this present moment?

STEVE: Yeah.

ELIAS: Let me adjust the terminology. It is not that you CANNOT create any expression that I may create. It is that you do not allow yourself.

STEVE: Okay, but I would have the ability in my present state to bring into my awareness all of the things that you bring into your awareness?

ELIAS: Within your present state no, for you block through your beliefs.

STEVE: You mean my beliefs block my subjective awareness’s knowledge? I mean, it blocks my subjective awareness from being able to know stuff like if there’s an asteroid coming toward earth or something?

ELIAS: Your subjective awareness moves in harmony with your objective awareness. Therefore, let me express to you, my friend, if your objective awareness is not expressing knowledge of some action such as a meteor, your subjective awareness is not generating that knowledge either.

STEVE: So there’s some things that...

ELIAS: This is not to say that you do not incorporate that ability, but you do not use it.

STEVE: We’re getting there now. Let me proceed here. I, every day, ask myself, and this is what I say. I write down a statement. I’ll give you one. One of them was “Did I create this factor, so-called factor,” and I list all the symptoms that I’m talking about. This happened in 1984, in December, for the sole reason that my subjective awareness was disapproving of some of the things I was starting to try to do with my budding psychic ability, and therefore blocked that ability with this factor until I understood that there were certain things that would not be appropriate to do psychically, like read people’s minds or try to do something to other people without their permission. And I asked that question, is that true?

Now, I have learned that I can get the answer to that question in an accurate way about things that I would have no way of knowing about in my conscious mind, like who won the baseball game yesterday. I don’t have any idea what the score was, and I can find that out by saying is this true that the Cubs won six to five or something. If the answer is yes, if the answer is true, then I get a certain physiological reaction that’s associated with this factor. I get more muscle contractions. If the answer is false – I’m simplifying a little bit – if the answer is false, I get no reaction. So, I mentioned that to you two weeks ago, and I think that you said it is the subjective awareness who is providing that answer for me. Is that correct?

ELIAS: Yes, but you are incorporating the response also objectively. You continue to separate and view these awarenesses as some expression that is removed from you or outside of you or separated.

STEVE: I understand, but the point is I’m able to tap in, in a way that other people therefore aren’t, into what my subjective and objective, into their body of knowledge. Isn’t that correct?

ELIAS: Not necessarily. There are many individuals within your physical reality that allow themselves to tap into many different aspects of essence of themselves.

STEVE: Let’s put it this way. I’m able to tap into a body of knowledge that a year ago I wasn’t tapping into.

ELIAS: I am understanding.

STEVE: You’re saying that the information that I get, therefore, will not be accurate all the time? In other words, when I say this is true, sometimes I’m going to get the wrong answer? The Cubs really didn’t win six to five yesterday or whatever?

ELIAS: It fluctuates. You are correct; you may not necessarily continuously offer yourself accurate information.

STEVE: Sometimes I get the wrong answer. Will I get the right answer more often than I get the wrong one?

ELIAS: This is dependent upon how you move your attention and what you allow yourself.

STEVE: Well, if I tried to pick who won a hundred baseball games in the past, what do you think I can get? What percent? There’s a 50-50 proposition with each one.

ELIAS: It is dependent upon what you allow yourself to tap into.

STEVE: Sometimes I might get this physiologic response that the Cardinals won, and it turned out that their opponent won?

ELIAS: Perhaps.

STEVE: So that when I got the answer – this is what I was leading up to – if the answer I got was yes, this is the sole reason that I have this so-called factor, is because my subjective awareness gave it to me so that I could get my head straight on how to behave psychically in an appropriate way...

ELIAS: NO.

STEVE: If the answer is yes, that’s true, you would actually say I got the wrong answer on that one then, wouldn’t you?

ELIAS: Correct.

STEVE: I did get the wrong answer? And the reason I got the wrong answer was because I was... Give it to me again, why I was allowing myself to get the wrong answer?

ELIAS: For you are not translating accurately.

Let me express to you, my friend, within a particular moment, that may perhaps have been your motivation initially in association with your beliefs. Therefore, in one moment that may have been the correct response or the correct answer. But each moment that you continue to express this dis-ease, you are generating that action in association with whatever direction you are incorporating in the time framework, and that may change.

STEVE: Right. Say that again.

ELIAS: Your motivation and your direction may change, and you may continue to be creating the dis-ease but...

STEVE: Forget the reason?

ELIAS: Yes.

STEVE: Then I can just ask you, as of today, what’s the reason? And if I ask it that way am I going to get the right answer?

ELIAS: It is dependent upon how you move your attention and whether you are actually listening to your communications and paying attention to what you are expressing to yourself, and noticing and identifying the beliefs that are being expressed in the moment.

STEVE: Well, all of that is out of my control, Mary, I...

ELIAS: NO, this is...

STEVE: ...can only ask the question. How it’s processed is not something I control.

ELIAS: Yes, you do.

STEVE: How?

ELIAS: Through attention.

STEVE: I still don’t understand what I’m going to do differently to pay attention better.

ELIAS: It is not a matter of paying attention better. It is a matter of realizing that your attention is not thought and that it moves, and that you may move your attention to different expressions other than thought.

STEVE: How do I do that? I don’t generate anything that I know of to do without saying to myself with my conscious mind try to think about this or try... You know? Unless I’m in the dream state. I don’t control anything other than my thoughts, Mary. I just don’t understand how I could.

ELIAS: Yes, you do. You orchestrate all of your reality and all of your actions, and not all of them are necessarily associated with thought. You do not...

STEVE: I don’t seem to have the mechanism to...

ELIAS: You do.

STEVE: ...to deal with that directly.

ELIAS: You do, and you incorporate it in each and every day continuously.

STEVE: I’ve got another appointment with you; we’ll have to explore that more, because I’m not getting it yet. (Elias grins)

But let me ask you this. Can you define your abilities? Do you mind me asking that? Can you tell me if you’re going to be better at getting to the reason I have this disease than I am? In other words, can you read my thoughts? Do you know what I was thinking yesterday at 12 noon? Do you know what TV show I was watching; do you know whether I was in my car or not in my car; do you know the conversation I had with my friend Bob yesterday, what we discussed? Are you able to tell me any of those things?

ELIAS: I do not concern myself with those actions, my friend.

STEVE: Do you have the ability to get that knowledge?

ELIAS: Yes, I do incorporate the ability, but I do not concern myself with those types of expressions for it matters not. My interaction is....

STEVE: But then I would know this guy has this ability. I want to know what your abilities are. In other words, when they asked Seth to do this, when... And tell me if I’m being too hard on you now; I’ll stop. (Elias grins) When they asked Seth to show what he could do with ESP, he could only give vague answers. Sometimes they were wrong, but usually they were in the ballpark. Like if they hid a newspaper in an envelope, he would be able to say it’s rough paper, but he wouldn’t be able to say it was newspaper. Is that the kind of energy that you receive, sort of a vague, ballpark type stuff?

ELIAS: No. Let me express to you, these are parlor tricks, my friend.

STEVE: Well, fine, but they help us because they show exactly what your abilities are.

ELIAS: And what does it matter what my abilities are? What is important and significant is what YOUR abilities are.

STEVE: Because I’m trusting you when you said to me earlier today that it is not correct that I continue to have this factor illness until and for the sole reason that I learn proper ethical behavior with my psychic ability. You said that is NOT the sole reason that you have this. Now, for me to trust you that you’re right, I have to know what your abilities are. How else would I know to trust you that you’re right? Maybe you’re only right half the time.

ELIAS: It is not a question of whether you trust me or not. It is whether you trust you.

STEVE: You said that I’m fallible and that you’re better than me at it.

ELIAS: I have NOT expressed that I am better than you in ANY manner.

STEVE: You said you’re better than me in my present state with my focus as it is now. I don’t seem to have the knowledge range that you do due to, I guess, certain ways in which I block knowledge. But you don’t have that block, so you’re expressing to me that you have a wider awareness and range of knowledge than me. Isn’t that right?

ELIAS: But you incorporate the ability to generate the same awareness.

STEVE: Then I would like to know what awareness I’m going to be able to generate by having you tell me what awareness you’re able to generate. But you’re reluctant to tell me, for some reason! I don’t understand why.

ELIAS: (Gently) For it is insignificant, my friend.

STEVE: Maybe to you, Elias, but not to me! I want to know what I’m going to be able to do once I become unblocked.

ELIAS: Whatever you choose, literally.

STEVE: Then can you just tell me anything that I did yesterday?

ELIAS: I shall not engage parlor tricks. It is inconsequential.

STEVE: Maybe you can’t, and maybe that’s why you’re saying that. Do you understand that that’s what people think when you say that?

ELIAS: I understand what you are expressing, and it matters not.

STEVE: Don’t you want people to believe in you? Isn’t that why you’re here?

ELIAS: NO. It matters not. I do not recruit you, my friend. You draw yourself to me.

STEVE: Yeah, but you want to create an ease in the shift of consciousness.

ELIAS: I am...

STEVE: We’re your audience, isn’t that right?

ELIAS: NO. I am responding to your requests. That is all.

STEVE: Your purpose is as a teacher. You have motivations, Elias.

ELIAS: No, I am not a teacher.

STEVE: Are you getting angry at me?

ELIAS: No.

STEVE: Are you sure?

ELIAS: Yes. (Grins)

STEVE: Are you irritated with me?

ELIAS: No. (Continues grinning)

STEVE: You do not receive pleasure from this line of inquiry?

ELIAS: (Laughs) It matters not!

STEVE: I can ask questions like this in each one of our sessions and you won’t say I’m not going to deal with you anymore?

ELIAS: No, I shall not.

STEVE: So you will not do that?

ELIAS: Correct. (Laughs)

STEVE: I can keep asking questions like this each session that I have with you?

ELIAS: Yes, you may.

STEVE: All right. (Elias chuckles) Well, okay. We’ve accomplished a lot, haven’t we? You never had an interview like this, have you?

ELIAS: (Laughs) I have incorporated similar interactions with other individuals and a similar expression of energy.

STEVE: You are very tolerant, I can say that. If I had this conversation with any earthly being, they would have spit in my face even though I thought I was asking legitimate questions. People just don’t like to be interrogated like that.

ELIAS: You are exploring, my friend, and you incorporate a genuine curiosity and a genuine desire to understand. You are merely incorporating some challenge and difficulty in understanding. But this is acceptable.

STEVE: I’ve always believed that you are who you say you are, that you are an energy essence from another dimension. I haven’t fully believed that you are always truthful with us. I think that you may fudge a little bit, and I don’t believe that you’re always correct. (Elias chuckles) I don’t exactly know what the limits are of your ability, but one thing I do believe, and I’ve always believed this, is that you are who you say you are. And if I needed any other proof of that, which I didn’t, but this was just compounded by the fact that you can stimulate my immune system with the sound of your voice on a tape, which is something that no human being on earth can do.

So you’re not some projection of Mary’s consciousness; you’re not her subconsciousness doing this; you’re not Mary faking this. And by the way, I know that she couldn’t because I don’t think any philosophy teacher at Harvard could have the dialog that you have with people. In other words, you are of an intelligence level that’s beyond. But that aside, the fact that you have a stimulation of my immune system that I’m able to recognize puts you in a category of nonearthly, right there. But I have to quit because we’re at ten after, so that’ll be the last words from me.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Very well, my friend, and I shall accept your compliment!

STEVE: Thank you very much. I’ll talk to you later.

ELIAS: Very well. I shall be anticipating our next meeting, my friend. To you, in affection as always...

STEVE: Thank you very much.

ELIAS: ...au revoir.

STEVE: Same to you.

Elias departs after 1 hour, 1 minute.

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