Sunday, February 01, 2004
ďAre You Aware of What I Want to Talk About?Ē
ďAlternate Descriptions of OrientationĒ
ďTheme within EssenceĒ
ďHow Do Things Change?Ē
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Ben (Albert).
(Eliasí arrival time is 18 seconds.)
ELIAS: Good morning!
BEN: Good morning.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) And what shall we be discussing this morning?
BEN: How did I know you were going to ask that!
ELIAS: Ah! Perhaps you are psychic! (Both laugh)
BEN: It runs in the family. (Elias laughs) Well, I guess the first thing Iím going to talk about is the last time I talked to you, I had a session and it only lasted like five or ten minutes. You remember that?
BEN: My impression was the reason why we chose to make it so short was because it wasnít going in the direction that I really wanted to go in.
BEN: Does that sound right? I mean...
BEN: So did I have another agenda I wasnít addressing to or...? Can you tell by my energy what I want to talk about?
ELIAS: That is an interesting question. I may express to you that I may assess certain directions in association with the energy that you are expressing, but that is not necessarily to say that I am aware of what exactly you choose to discuss.
BEN: Yeah, the topic.
ELIAS: Correct. Although your energy may be moving in one direction, you may choose to be expressing in a different direction. Therefore, there may be several actions occurring simultaneously.
I have addressed to other individuals concerning this particular type of expression, for at times an individual may be expressing so many directions simultaneously that they are unclear as to which direction they may choose and they confuse different directions. Therefore, their energy is not cohesive enough that I may be addressing to any of their questions accurately. This is the reason that it is significant that individuals are clear with themselves as to what they choose to be discussing and what direction they are moving in to allow themselves the clarity to understand my participation in the interaction with them.
BEN: I think lately for me itís been one of those situations where I donít necessarily have anything. I donít have an agenda, I donít necessarily have anything that I want to talk about, and itís just more of a question of calling up a friend of mine and just catching up.
ELIAS: Correct, which is one of the factors that influenced that interruption in the conversation. For I am aware that many times in your interaction with myself you do not incorporate an agenda and your direction is genuinely merely to be interacting, but there is also an expectation that you express with yourself that you should be engaging some type of questioning that would appear to be of some substance and somewhat of interest or value to other individuals, rather than merely engaging the conversation of what you would assess as involving little significance.
BEN: What was interesting about that interruption was it made me aware it doesnít make any difference whether Iím talking to you or, say, Colleen, that the subject matter that I was talking about was something that I had been engaged in a lot of thought about lately and had been engaging in interaction with other people and talking about. It made me realize that what Iím really looking for is someone to listen to what I have to say and agree with me, and generally, not just with you, that youíve got an idea about how you think things are or how you want the conversation to go, and if the other person isnít giving you what you expect, then youíre just like, ďOh, I donít actually want to hear what you have to say.Ē
ELIAS: Yes. (Chuckles) And in this present now, what direction would you choose to be engaging? (Both laugh)
BEN: Well, I think about different things all the time, so...
ELIAS: (Chuckles) And would you like me to be in agreement with you in this conversation? (Both laugh)
BEN: I want you to be in agreement with me in EVERY conversation!
BEN: Actually, I think that from being interactive with this material, I donít know whether youíre aware that I often come up with what I would call metaphors to explain the material to myself or other people. I think I have a pretty good handle on things for the most part, so Iím not really looking for validation or information or whatever else these days.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) Very well! Therefore, we shall engage in friendly conversation. Have you encountered any interesting information recently that you wish to be sharing in conversation with myself?
BEN: One of the things I thought we could talk about was a bit about orientations. I think that I kind of have a handle on orientation, maybe because thereís only three of them, but I think I kind of know what they mean and I also have my own ideas about the differences between them. For the most part, I donít really think I can imagine what it would be like to be intermediate.
ELIAS: Very well.
BEN: So itís that kind of thing where I donít know if itís a distortion that you start making generalizations about things Ė soft people are like this, common people are like this, intermediate people are like this.
ELIAS: And what would be your assessment of each of these orientations?
BEN: Well, for example, I had said that from my experience from knowing or associating with soft people, I think that soft people have a special relationship to time, as I call it. (Elias chuckles) I think it manifests itself different ways individually, but they just seem to have a different... Their relationship with time is different to everybody elseís.
ELIAS: And how would you describe or explain the difference in their relationship to time as in association with an individual of the common orientation?
BEN: It just seems to be different, because the soft people that I know, theyíre always late or they canít commit to anything or they blow people off or this kind of thing Ė not that common people canít do those things Ė but it just seems their relationship to what time it is and how long things take and that kind of thing is just completely different from a common person. Common people are just more logical about it. I donít know.
ELIAS: Interesting assessment. I would express to you that I would assess that their relationship with time is not necessarily so very different from your own, but their relationship to structure may be significantly different, which may involve expressions of time. For generally speaking, individuals of the soft orientation are less structured or less responsive to structure. They may incorporate some structure, but they incorporate less of an association with the value of structure, so to speak, or discipline.
BEN: Can you give me an example or kind of explain to me what you mean by structure?
ELIAS: I shall incorporate your example of time. Individuals that incorporate the orientation of common, and also many individuals of the intermediate orientation, incorporate what you may term to be a value or a respect for certain structures, certain guidelines, certain rules that incorporate a discipline within their movement, a structure of their day in which there is a discipline and somewhat of a rigidity that offers a comfort or a security, so to speak, for it generates guidelines that are dependable.
In association with time, it is comfortable for individuals to be setting guidelines in association with time: to be punctual, to be incorporating specific periods of time in association with different tasks or with different engagements. This rigidness or structure in relation to time allows the individual to move in manners in which they may express that comfort in not concerning themselves with an intentional expression of discipline. In a manner of speaking, it requires no thought; therefore, there is an element of comfort. There is no effort in planning, so to speak, for it is expressed naturally to incorporate this structure.
If you engage an appointment, you set a specific time to be engaging that appointment and you set a specific time framework in which you shall continue that appointment and a specific time in which you complete the interaction or the action that you are engaging in the appointment. You set specific times in which you generate specific actions, or you generate somewhat of a flexibility in the amount of time that you shall engage certain activities or within certain hours. But generally speaking, you incorporate time in a manner in which it sets a routine and that is familiar and comfortable.
Generally speaking, although individuals incorporating the soft orientation do incorporate many similar actions within your societies and within the structure of the society in relation to employment and entertainment and social activities, they are less observant of the structural aspects of what they do. Therefore, they may at times incorporate somewhat of a rebelliousness in association with the official structures that are incorporated within your societies, which also generates this feeling within themselves that they do not fit or that there is some wrong expression occurring with themselves, for they do not flow as naturally with the confines of the structures that are set in place or the rules that are set in place en masse. This is expressed more obviously in social situations in which they do not expect themselves to be as structured as they expect that they must be in other situations. Are you understanding?
BEN: Yes. (Pause)
ELIAS: And what would be your assessment of the intermediate orientation?
BEN: You mean as far as structure is concerned, or in general?
ELIAS: In general.
BEN: Maybe itís because we call it orientation, thereís certain generalizations that I find myself falling into or other people fall into, where you think that soft people lean in the direction of being or appearing gay. You know, itís like something about imagery or something. So in some senses, I associate the imagery of intermediate to be almost like hermits and nuns or something else along those lines. Even though that may have nothing to do with their preference, thereís a certain amount of imagery that I associate with that orientation.
ELIAS: I am understanding.
Now; this also is a misunderstanding, and I may express to you that it is a frequently expressed misunderstanding and that there are many individuals that generate a similar perception of the intermediate orientation. One of the reasons that this is automatically expressed in this type of perception is that you automatically generate an association of ďfocusing attention inwardlyĒ as meaning isolating, or as you have expressed, being alone and not being as interactive.
Generally speaking, with intermediate individuals this is not the situation. Many individuals incorporating that orientation engage employment that is quite interactive, and in their individual interactions they generally enjoy being quite interactive but not generally in large groups. They generally prefer to be interactive in small company.
BEN: I guess it was actually almost easier to understand orientation back in the days when you used to just say ďmale,Ē ďfemale,Ē and ďother.Ē (Elias chuckles) I can kind of almost imagine where you would say if youíre going to focus in this dimension you have to do it at least three times, because youíve got to see what itís like to be male, youíve got to see what itís like to be female. So to me, the fact that the difference in orientations not being as obvious as gender, if this is true and this has been like this through the whole history of whatever, there must be other things that we have associated with these three orientations. We just never called them that.
BEN: The only thing that was new was you gave them new labels.
BEN: Itís so hard for me to imagine that the orientations are so different and that living a life as a particular orientation is so different that youíve got to try it the other way too. I know you talked about it being about perception and the way we create reality, but itís kind of hard for me... Itís easier to have an idea when you think itís about gender, because I would know how different my life would be if I was female. But itís hard for me to imagine what if I would have had the exact same life except I was intermediate. It seems like I donít know what that means.
ELIAS: Let me express to you that the identification of these differences in perception was not inaccurate in my offering of them as male, female and other, but I also was aware that expressing it in that manner would incorporate within all of you much more distortion than it would to be generating entirely different terms to be attaching to these three orientations.
As I have expressed many times previously, within your physical reality one of the elements of the blueprint of it is duality, and in that duality, there is an attachment of gender to all of your manifestations, not merely your physical forms. You attach an association of male and female, or gender, for this is familiar to you, to all of your energies.
In that, there are different expressions of energies which are significantly different from each other that present different experiences and different perceptions. You are correct; if you are manifesting as a male gender, your experience is somewhat different from that associated with the female gender. But you also recognize that incorporating a male gender and different preferences from the masses or the majority, your experiences are also different from certain male experiences. Therefore, there are more expressions of energy and it is not as black and white as it appears to be.
In this, the reason that you associate soft individuals as incorporating a preference or a choice of homosexuality is the energy. The expression of the energy that individuals of the soft orientation present is a similar or familiar type of energy that you objectively associate with individuals that express the preference or the choice of homosexuality. It is not so dissimilar to your automatic associations with intermediate individuals and generating a perception that they are more quiet or that they are more isolated or that they are less interactive. For you generate certain familiarities with terms and with energy, and therefore you express generalities concerning your assessment of what this group of individuals generally expresses.
Now; there are some general qualities or expressions that are incorporated with each group associating with their individual orientations, commonalities that, generally speaking, most of the individuals that incorporate a particular orientation will express in some manner. But those generalities, first of all, are not a rule, and secondly, they are not generally the generalities that you assess them to be.
BEN: For an example, letís say a hundred years ago people notice these differences in orientations. Theyíre not thinking of them in those terms, but still people have known since the beginning that these things exist; they kind of see what it is. What kind of labels or words would people use to distinguish these orientations without really thinking of it in those terms? (Pause)
ELIAS: Within different time frameworks, individuals have generated different types of associations with these lenses, so to speak. I may express to you, generally speaking individuals that are of the common orientation have generally been viewed as strong, as ambitious individuals, as productive individuals, and the type of individual that most individuals strive to be, the ideal.
Those individuals expressing the intermediate orientation would be viewed as interactive but frail, not necessarily in physical frailness but in an association of energy and the manner in which individuals have, or masses have, generalized with different personalities. What would be viewed, rather than an identification of an orientation, would be groups of personality types. That would be what individuals would view and associate with. In this, in recognizing that most intermediate individuals are more comfortable in interaction with quite small groups or in couples, so to speak, and that they display outwardly a type of energy which is interpreted by other individuals as an unsurety, an uncertainness, they would generally be viewed as more frail, not as strong as individuals of the common orientation.
Individuals of the soft orientation have been viewed somewhat as misfits, that in your common vernacular they appear more scattered and moody.
BEN: But they also seem to gravitate to the center of attention.
BEN: See, thatís another generalization that I make is I think that most of the soft people I know canít stop talking.
ELIAS: This is a quality associated with their interactiveness. If they are interactive with other individuals, they do incorporate a tendency to be quite interactive; but they also incorporate a quality which motivates them to engage significant time frameworks in what you would view to be isolation, in which they are not interactive with other individuals. But they are interactive; they are merely not interactive with other individuals. In general assessment, they themselves and other individuals of other orientations view these expressions to be somewhat of extremes, and therefore they view themselves, and other individuals view them, to be more moody and incorporating more of a scattered energy, not appearing to be quite as directed as other individuals, changeable.
BEN: This made me think of something else that I wanted to talk to you about for awhile, the idea of a theme, your essence having a theme. The only two people that I know of who identified their essence theme was Lawrence, who apparently has a theme of loyalty, and Micah, who has a theme of honor. Iíve been trying to think of what Albertís theme is, and the only word that I can come up with that I think might have something to do with it is ďsociety.Ē
ELIAS: Yes, that would be accurate.
BEN: Is there a better word or something? It seems like itís not the same kind of noun.
ELIAS: I am understanding. But it is accurate, for the theme would be associated with the different types of manifestation in association with different expressions of society, a preference to be generating manifestations that incorporate some type of position with society.
BEN: To me, itís more like an exploration of the idea of society...
BEN: ...and all that word connotes.
BEN: Is there anybody else in the forum that I know of that has identified their theme? Those are the only two that I know of.
BEN: Oh, whatís Michaelís theme?
ELIAS: And shall you not incorporate conversation with Michael?
BEN: (Laughs) Okay! Thatís fine.
ELIAS: I may express to you, Michael has identified a theme within essence of his manifestations concerning humanitarianism. In actuality, Michael and Lawrence engaged this direction of questioning initially themselves together, and other individuals have generated that questioning subsequent to their initiation of it.
BEN: I told Michael what I thought his theme was, so I wasnít surprised that you agreed with me! (Elias laughs)
One of the other things I was thinking of is in our interrupted session when I was basically trying to talk about how beliefs get started or where they come from, one of the things that might have worked better, other than asking the question the way I did, would be to ask like if could you tell me a story to explain to me how something gets started.
One of the examples Iíve used when Iíve been talking to people lately was the differences in dieting since Iíve been alive. First it was like count your calories, calories are bad, and then itís like fat is bad, everything is low fat and no fat, and now itís carbs are bad, it has to be low-carb. Could you kind of tell me a story or something to say how the next thing could come about?
ELIAS: As I expressed to you in that conversation, you are all quite suggestible. You incorporate this quality naturally, which does offer you some expression of less separation, but any belief may become a mass belief or a mass movement merely by its expression and whether there is a significant number of individuals that agree with its direction. This is how truths are formed, in expressing any belief and incorporating enough individuals in agreement with its expression, and thus it becomes absolute.
In this, the example of dieting is an interesting example, for it offers an avenue in which you may view how often facts change and how any of the facts that are presented are not actually true. For facts change, and they are not absolutes. In this, as one individual generates what they believe to be a new discovery concerning diet and health and weight, as masses of individuals are continuously moving in a consistent direction of questioning and following the lead of any individual that may present a new direction to be accomplishing one particular action, there is a willingness with individuals en masse to be accepting and generating agreement temporarily with any new discovery in relation to diet.
Now; it also is associated with how you view authority and which authorities you value and trust more than others. In this time framework, are you not incorporating an action of exploring another of your planets?
ELIAS: The individuals that are engineering that action as scientists and engineers and researchers you view as valued authorities, and you trust them. You trust their movements, you trust their opinions, you trust their actions. Therefore, you generate an energy of agreement with them, which generates a mass expression. Therefore, what you create en masse is the configuration of this planet in a manner in which you want it to be Ė in a manner in which you believe it to be Ė and therefore it is.
Previously, your scientists expressed that there was no possibility of similar elements in association with that planet as to the familiar elements of your own planet Ė one quite significant element being water or any form of water. But in your tremendous desire to be discovering what you term to be some form of life in association with another planet, especially one that you view to be close to your own planet, you have altered the facts and altered the reality. Now the reality stands that you create this planet to be incorporating some form of a familiar element to your own planet.
Within your beliefs, the only manner in which life may be generated is if there is a certain combination of elements to generate it, for that is what is familiar to you. Therefore, you are constructing a planet now that incorporates some similar elements and that is expressed in conjunction with your beliefs en masse of how life is designed. That may and in most likelihood of potential will change futurely, for you shall expand your awareness and not confine yourself to merely what is familiar within your beliefs presently, recognize that they are not so absolute, and therefore offer yourself more leeway in what you create and perhaps discover a planet which incorporates no elements that are similar to your own and that shall generate life, as you term it to be, in some form.
It is not so dissimilar with any of your mass beliefs. They move in conjunction with your motivations, with your explorations, with your agreement or your disagreement, and with your suggestibility.
BEN: Thatís an interesting image. Thatís sort of abstract, in the sense where I know what youíre saying. Itís like if I were to hear on the media that thereís life on Mars, Iíd be like, ďOh, great, thereís life on Mars Ė whatís for breakfast?Ē (Elias chuckles) Itís different than the idea of something thatís more affecting of me directly, like in the example of dieting.
One of the examples that I like to use is Gradyís example of walking through walls. Once they start telling me on TV that scientists now know how to walk through walls and whatever else, that anyone can walk through a wall and that kind of thing, suddenly we start to believe that we can walk through walls, instead of how it is right now, which is that we donít.
ELIAS: Correct. In association with dieting, temporarily you believe what other individuals that you consider to be authorities have discovered, and therefore temporarily you incorporate different directions and incorporate the set methods. But the underlying expression, the reason that the methods continue to change, is that individually and en masse you are continuously striving to discover the one true method.
BEN: For me, itís just the fact that the truth behind it is that it doesnít make any difference what you eat, that your weight is created in a different way.
ELIAS: Ah! But this is tricky also, for that is, in a manner of speaking, the same statement as what I have expressed, that you are continuously looking for the one true method, which implies that there is one absolute true method to be incorporated in association with dieting and health. In your statement, you are also implying that there is one true expression, and in that, it denies the choice of the individual and the uniqueness of the individual, for what may be your truth may not be another individualís truth. The point is is that you continue to move in a direction to discover the one true truth that shall apply and hold absolutely to all individuals, and that is the point, for there is no one true truth.
BEN: Yes, I wonít deny that there is an aspect of that, but I guess my original questioning myself about the whole idea had to do with in the Seth days if you wanted something to happen, then you changed your beliefs. So to me, itís not so much about changing the beliefs, itís about setting up the situation or creating in steps or whatever. Itís like if this something that you want to explore, how does it change? Youíre operating under a particular set of systems, but how DO things change? I think that was kind of my question.
Itís not so much that itís not going to continue to change, and I know what youíre saying, that yes, weíre all looking for this one way; but I think, like you say, on an individual basis itís just that curiosity about even something small. How does something change? Weíre always talking about we want something to happen and we donít know why it isnít happening. So when I look outside of myself and see how things like mass beliefs change, I want to harness that aspect of my gullibility or my suggestibility and play with the idea of changing things.
ELIAS: I am understanding. How directions change or how your movement changes or how your manifestations change is through a momentary allowance. All that is required is a moment in which you allow yourself to move your attention to an unfamiliar expression and to incorporate an openness and a willingness to experiment, and that is generally borne of a curiosity.
In this, it is not required to be incorporating tremendous process or methods. You actually incorporate this type of action continuously. You are incorporating these actions of changing your perceptions very, very frequently in each of your days in many different manners. That occurs in merely allowing yourself to explore or experiment momentarily with any type of unfamiliar action, for that generates a different understanding. It sparks an objective curiosity, so to speak. In that curiosity, you are offering yourself new information, and in that new information, regardless of what it is, you are offering yourself the opportunity to trust your ability to manipulate in a different manner.
BEN: Can I throw in an example here?
ELIAS: You may.
BEN: After we had our last session, I know you were talking about me being, to paraphrase, bored with the familiar and really looking towards the unfamiliar. I presumed you were not talking about me specifically, but me specifically as well as other people. Liam and I went ice-skating, which was something that I tried many years ago and didnít like. Because of what you said, I was intentionally choosing to do something that I was completely unfamiliar with, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I felt like there was something internally, by just making that choice, that there was some kind of internal something going on...
BEN: ...to embrace the unfamiliar as an experiment.
BEN: The fact that I chose to do something like that, and then also enjoy it, meant that something had changed.
ELIAS: Yes. In this, you also offer yourself an example that even experiences that you have already incorporated but that have become once again unfamiliar to you may be experienced quite differently. You may be incorporating quite a different perception in experimenting with different actions and allowing yourself to incorporate that type of experimentation. In a manner of speaking, in your terms it is the incorporation of what you would term to be a small risk. You shall...
BEN: The risk somehow involves my identity, that by doing something unfamiliar, in this instance, itís an identity thing. I think of myself as somebody who doesnít like that...
BEN: ...so that by doing it and enjoying it, somehow Iíve changed.
BEN: And my identity has changed.
ELIAS: Yes, you are correct, and that is the risk. You risk incorporating an action that you are uncertain of and you are uncertain of the outcome. You already incorporate a possible perception of how the outcome shall be presented, but you express a willingness to incorporate the movement regardless. In that moment, that willingness, that openness to experimentation generates a change and alters perception.
BEN: You just made me think of something else. When we were talking about risk and identity, Iíve been quite fascinated by this whole idea of there being two Christians in the forum now. (1) (Elias laughs) It is quite entertaining to several people, including myself and Michael.
Iíve always had this kind of fundamental thing about what it means to be a focus of essence or to be an essence. I keep thinking that Iím going to learn something by being interactive with the two of them, that even though it might be a situation where they might look at one another and not see any similarities, Iím going under the expectation that somehow Iím going to intuit some kind of similarity between these two individuals.
ELIAS: And you may, for this is what you are looking for.
BEN: But Iíll create that.
ELIAS: That is a possibility, yes. (Ben laughs) I may express to you that is what your curiosity is and that is what you want to generate. That is your exploration, and therefore, you shall.
In this, you may be offering yourself more information than merely what you perceive to be similarities between these two individuals, for you are offering yourself the opportunity to participate in interaction with these two focuses, and there is expressed in this now a willingness of both focuses to be interactive with other individuals. In that, you also offer yourself the opportunity to view how these two individuals interact with each other and how that is affecting or not affecting of their identity and their perception of themselves.
BEN: I think itís going to help that I think that Iím looking for something for myself. I donít care how similar these two people might be, Iím still going to see them as two separate people.
BEN: Thatís why I have this love/hate idea with the idea of having focuses or famous focuses. On some level, Iím looking for a similarity, and ultimately I know that I donít care who this other person is, theyíre not me.
BEN: Itís like what does it mean to be a focus of essence or to be an essence if these people arenít even anything alike, or that theyíre supposed to be alike and theyíre not alike? What does it mean, then? (Both laugh)
ELIAS: They are not necessarily supposed to be alike! I may express to you, this may be valuable to you to be viewing these interactions and considering this concept of essence, reinforcing the significance, the importance and the uniqueness of each individual and their expressions and their manifestations, that you may be focuses of the same essence but that does not discount or devalue in any manner the significance of the individual.
BEN: I presume that you would probably say that going forward, we may have more of these sort of essence twins showing up in the forum.
ELIAS: That is a strong possibility.
BEN: I know at one point you told Micah that he had a concurrent focus in New Zealand who had a probability of joining the forum. Is that probability still there?
ELIAS: Yes. It has not occurred yet, but it is continuing to be a potential.
BEN: Right, and in that potential, that probability hasnít still been the same; itís like greater or less than the last time he was asking about it, right?
BEN: It was quite interesting when you told me last time about my concurrent focus in Turkey. I was going, ďIs this what itís like to have an impression about another focus?Ē because I found myself being drawn to that kind of imagery and that kind of thing, and now I want to go visit Turkey.
See, thatís another expectation. I think that because Christian has met a concurrent focus, itís like no one else I know is going to do that anytime soon; it just doesnít happen like that, so I wonít create it in that particular way. (Elias laughs) I think that Shynla more than me, but I think that I would have more issues about interacting with a concurrent focus than Christian is going to have.
ELIAS: In this present now, I would be inclined to be agreeing with you. (Chuckles)
BEN: I think Iím going to wrap it up here; I think weíve been talking about an hour. Any last minute whatever you want to throw in there? We did okay for just having a conversation today. Thatís fine with me.
ELIAS: (Laughs) And quite fine with myself also.
BEN: I know. Youíre so easy, anythingís fine with you!
ELIAS: I have enjoyed this conversation! (Laughs)
BEN: Anything else you want to bring up before we go?
ELIAS: Not necessarily. I shall express my encouragement to you as always, and my support in your playfulness with your two focuses that you are watching. (Laughs)
BEN: Oh yes, thatís going to be a source of entertainment for a while.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Very well! I shall be watching also. I express to you as always my great affection and my friendship.
BEN: Thanks for hanging out with me this morning.
ELIAS: And thank you also! To you as always, Albert, in great fondness, au revoir.
BEN: Au revoir.
Elias departs after 1 hour 13 minutes.
(1) There are two focuses of the essence of Christian who participate in the Elias forum.
Digests: find out more about essence names.
© 2004 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.