Saturday, March 15, 2003
“Avoiding Trauma of the Shift”
“What Is Attention?”
“Dissipating the Energy of Creating a War”
Participants: Mary (Michael), Barb, Ben (Albert), Carole (Aileen), Christine (Lurine), Curtis (Juva), Dale (Jene), Daniel, Eileen, Erin (Melody), Frank (Christian), Gillian (Ari), Howard (Bosht), Jean, Jeff (Armund), Jerry (Abel), Jim (Marion), Joanne (Gildae), John (Rrussell), Jon (Sung), June, Karen, Kevin (Douglas), Linda (Robert), Lorraine (Kayia), Luanne (Inez), Lynda (Ruther), Margot (Giselle), Marj (Grady), Mark, Pat R, Pat W (Treice), Pete (Magnus), Rodney (Zacharie), Scott (Giya), Suzanne, Ted (Cara), Veronica (Lyla), Wendy (Wynnett).
Bobbi’s note: As this was the St. Patrick’s Day group session, most of the individuals attending wore green, and Mary supplied green bowler hats to every one. She panned the crowd with the video camera before the session, and it was certainly a festive looking group! Many thanks to Jim Bramley for supplying back up video tape of the session, without which the last four pages of this transcript would be missing.
Elias arrives at 1:48 PM. (Arrival time is 26 seconds.)
ELIAS: Good afternoon!
GROUP: Good afternoon, Elias.
ELIAS: What is the purpose of our interactions?
GROUP (various individuals): To get ready for the shift; to reduce trauma; awareness of self; self-discovery; remembering; no separation.
ELIAS: And how is this accomplished?
RODNEY: I haven’t figured that out yet! (Laughter, and Elias chuckles)
GROUP: I think it depends on yourself; mirroring; staying in the now and paying attention to self.
ELIAS: And in paying attention to yourselves, how do you accomplish eliminating the trauma associated with this shift?
GROUP: Accepting; trust self.
ELIAS: And how do you accomplish that?
GROUP: Staying in the now; listening; relax; allowing; being with it; loving self; not lending energy to it; having fun; playfulness; knowing it matters not.
ELIAS: And how do you accomplish knowing that it matters not?
FEMALE: Very difficult! Stop thinking. (Elias chuckles) You know it for a short while, but then you forget it again as soon as you get pulled back into the drama.
ELIAS: What would be the one action that allows you to accomplish all of these statements that you have offered?
GROUP: Pay attention to self; being in the now; self-acceptance; noticing; not judging; not thinking; letting go of the guilt; paying attention to every moment.
ELIAS: What does THAT accomplish?
GROUP: Being aware of your belief systems; not judging others; knowing who you are.
ELIAS: Becoming familiar with you.
Now; what is the significance of becoming familiar with you?
TED: When you know who you are and you know who everybody else is, you know essence and consciousness.
ELIAS: What do you KNOW if you know you?
GROUP: Everything; acceptance; you know what you can do; preferences; how you create your reality; you know who you are.
ELIAS: What do you value?
GROUP: Fun; freedom; sharing; creativity; emotions; compassion; feeling connected to myself; whatever you want and don’t have (laughter); being able to be who I am; security.
ELIAS: What do you GENUINELY value? (Laughter)
GROUP: Self. (Offered by several individuals)
ELIAS: What do you realistically value?
RODNEY: My paycheck! (Much laughter)
GROUP: Relationships; people around me.
FEMALE: I realistically value and I feel really, really good when I know I’m being authentic. It makes a really big difference to me, because there’s lots of times when I’m doing things and I’m doing them because I think I should be doing them, but I’m really not being authentic. When am I really, really enjoying myself? The answers are surprisingly different from what I thought they were.
ELIAS: Very well. What is your definition of value fulfillment?
FEMALE: How do I fulfill it?
ELIAS: No, what is your definition of value fulfillment?
RODNEY: My life being worthwhile, meaningful, the desire, the joy to keep on living, keep on exploring, and to be deeply connected with that.
GROUP: Satisfaction in the now; continuing to benefit; doing what I want; to experience; if you break it up, its value is what it’s worth, and fulfillment is the ability to give yourself what it’s worth, fulfillment; fulfillment is the enactment of this belief system, this value system; value fulfillment would be anything that’s happening in your life – if you ever stopped doing value fulfillment, you’d disengage, right?
ELIAS: Quite, and what is the definition of that? What is the meaning of that?
GROUP: Everything’s going just fine (laughter); trust; following your intent.
ELIAS: What is the meaning of the value?
Let me express to you all, you have all encountered these terms for an extended time framework. You are familiar with the terms “value fulfillment.” But you are not familiar with their definition. You all recognize the term “value” and you all understand the term of fulfillment, independent of each other.
Now; if your value fulfillment is being expressed throughout the entirety of your focus from the moment you emerge to the moment you disengage, what do you value that you are fulfilling?
FEMALE: Experience? Physicality?
ELIAS: The significance of this question is to illustrate to you. Listen to all of your responses to my question. Each of you offered what you view to be the correct answer or the positive answer. Do you continuously throughout your focus generate positive actions?
GROUP: No; absolutely not.
ELIAS: But you are continuing to express value fulfillment regardless of whether you view your actions to be positive or negative, whether you assess your experiences to be positive or negative or neutral. Therefore, what do you value?
MARJ: Just experience, period.
ELIAS: But each individual values different experiences.
FEMALE: Because we have a viewpoint of that experience. We may think it’s a terrible experience, but if we chose it we’re getting a benefit from it, so it’s still a value fulfilled.
ELIAS: Correct, but this is the point in becoming familiar with yourselves and in a genuine manner, not in a manner of seeking utopia.
FEMALE: Enjoying the misery, too.
ELIAS: Not necessarily enjoying.
FEMALE: I’m being euphemistic, but just accepting that we created this misery and within that there’s a way you can enjoy it. I’ve watched other people in horrible situations who tell me about their illnesses or whatever, because I interview people for a living, and all I’m thinking to myself is “they’re enjoying that illness and I can see that in them.” They might not be aware of that, but I can see it. They tell me almost with a pride, “I had this quadruple by-pass,” and I’m thinking, wow, they created that but they may not be consciously aware of that. So they’re getting their value fulfillment but to the rest of the world it looks like they’re having misery, and even to them, they tell themselves it’s miserable, and I can see that. They created it and they’re liking it, or whatever term you want to put on it.
ELIAS: Perhaps not enjoying and perhaps not liking, but appreciating.
FEMALE: Appreciating, perfect! They’re appreciating it, perfect.
ELIAS: Now; in this, one of your most common expressions in association with experiences that you view to be uncomfortable or negative is to deny it and to attempt to force energy to push away, to eliminate. This is significant for this is familiar, and this is also what you generate in association with your beliefs.
You automatically continue to attempt to eliminate, and (humorously) you express great pride with yourselves and to other individuals in any moment that you may assess that you have accepted a belief and therefore are done with it! (Laughter) And it shall never return, for you have accomplished this action of acceptance, which is everlasting. Not! (Much laughter)
Understanding what you value is another element of becoming familiar with yourself and with your preferences and with your beliefs. Every action that you incorporate within your reality is influenced by a belief. There is NO movement that you engage within this particular physical reality that is not influenced by a belief. You express beliefs continuously throughout every moment of every day of your existence physically within this physical dimension, and ALL of those expressions are of your value fulfillment: actions that you may incorporate expressing a physical affectingness within your body consciousness, or it may be an action associated with relationships; it may be associated with interactions with other individuals. It may merely be in association with yourselves that you deem to be uncomfortable or even painful [that] are also expressions of your value fulfillment, or you would not be creating them. They are choices.
As an example, an individual may create some type of dis-ease within their physical body consciousness and may objectively in speech and communication with other individuals express their discomfort and their dislike of their manifestation and may be expressing their wish to discontinue this manifestation and their wish to be experiencing what you term to be fine health, but they continue to create the dis-ease. That you experience discomfort does not deny your choice and does not deny your value fulfillment.
Let me also express to you that for the most part, and I may be accurate in this assessment of each individual’s energy within this forum presently (Elias takes a moment to scan the room, looking at person), if you are generating bliss for an extended time framework, you surely shall create some conflict.
MALE: It’s called a hangover. (Much laughter, and Elias grins)
ELIAS: Of many types! (Laughter) For you become bored with bliss continuously. Therefore, what do you value? Drama, excitement, surprise, differences, change, exploration. These are expressions and movements that you value, and they may be accomplished in many different manners, not necessarily pleasant. But they are accomplished!
But in your quest for a reality that is not associated with this particular physical dimension, you seek to generate an experience of utopia and bliss, a world in which every expression is perfect and wondrous. But it is already perfect and wondrous in whatever expression it is. It is merely the individual’s beliefs that express differently.
Within your society, you may view another culture that incorporates an action of physical body mutilation, in your terms. In the other culture it may be viewed as an action of pride or beauty.
It is merely a difference in perceptions, a difference in beliefs which are expressed. Not a difference in beliefs which are held or incorporated, for every belief that the individuals [incorporate] in other physical locations within your world that you perhaps view to be your enemy presently, you incorporate those beliefs also. You may not express them, but you do hold them. For there is not one individual upon your planet within your physical dimension that does not incorporate every belief system and every belief within every belief system.
But you express a few. Each individual expresses a few beliefs within each belief system. These are the beliefs that you align with. Many times you are unaware of the beliefs that you do align with, but you express them and you express them often.
Now; in my previous encounter recently with a group of individuals, my topic of discussion was paying attention to self in the now genuinely. We discussed what you actually do pay attention to and how much of your time and how much of your actions you do not pay attention to for you view them to be insignificant, the mundane actions that you incorporate each day. And you do not recognize the beliefs that influence the actions that you incorporate, but those same beliefs that are incorporated and influencing all of these different actions that you incorporate in one day are the very same that influence experiences that you view to be significant and large.
As I have stated in that interaction, you may not view the action of brushing your teeth to be a significant action, and you may not engage your attention with thought in relation to it. You may merely incorporate the motion, and you do not identify what belief influences that action or what beliefs influence that action. But if you are creating not locking your door of your dwelling and creating thieves entering your home and ransacking your home, you shall be aware of the beliefs that are associated with the action of locking your door. They are the same belief, but they influence different actions. What you pay attention to are those actions and those experiences that you deem to be significant, to be large.
You may not pay attention to the belief that influences how you interact with an individual within a shop or an individual that may be a co-worker that you are merely acquaintances with, but how you interact with that individual in certain situations may be influenced by the same beliefs that may be quite interruptive of a relationship that you value.
Beliefs are powerful, and the significance of paying attention to yourselves in the now is to allow yourselves to recognize these beliefs and how they influence you.
Now; I shall not be interruptive of your transmissions of your recordings in this particular interaction, but I shall express to you that was quite purposefully expressed in the previous group, and the reason was precisely associated with the subject matter itself.
Now; I ask each of you, are you listening? And what are you paying attention to in this now?
RODNEY: I’m trying to pay attention to me and you at the same time.
FEMALE: How you affect me.
ELIAS: Very well.
VERONICA: I was noticing Mary’s aura or perhaps it’s your aura, I’m not sure, but I can see it.
ELIAS: It is significant to pay attention to your experiences and what you are generating now. You are interactive with myself in this now and I am speaking with you, but also you each are generating an individual perception, and what I am expressing to you is being processed by each of you in a unique manner. Therefore, it is significant to be aware of what YOU are generating in this interaction, what YOU are experiencing, what communications YOU are offering to yourselves, where your attention is, what you are responding to within yourselves, and noticing.
Each of you may be sitting within this room and not expressing verbally, but you are expressing an energy and you are engaging thought processes and you are engaging communications. You may be listening, but you are also generating your own actions, your own communications. And what are you communicating to yourselves, and are you listening? And what is influencing your responses to any term that I express to you?
This is significant, for this is the manner in which you begin to become familiar with this term of “value” and what you value. For you value many, many expressions, many things, many expressions, many ideas, but you are not necessarily aware of what you value. And this is your snare, for this allows you to misinterpret and offer incomplete information to your thought process, which offers you incomplete translations and generates confusion and frustration.
For you rely upon this translating mechanism of thought to interpret what you want, what you value, who you are, what your direction is, what your choices shall be; but thought does not generate any of these expressions. It merely translates. And if it is not being offered complete information, it offers you incomplete translations, and the circle continues of frustration, of confusion, of misunderstanding, of attempting to acquire, of a lack of satisfaction, a lack of appreciation, and continuing to seek. But you already possess!
FEMALE: Elias, are you saying the terms “value” and “appreciate” are synonymous?
FEMALE: Can you differentiate or clarify?
ELIAS: Appreciation is one of the components of love, that and knowing. Value is associated with your exploration. It is the quest of your exploration, not to acquire but to discover what is already, and this is accomplished in this physical dimension through experience. It is accomplished through experience within all of consciousness, but within quite a different manner.
But value is associated with the actual discovery through exploration.
FEMALE: So to be consciously aware we’re having an experience and we’re valuing it, we would be excited about it in a way of understanding that we’re creating it, and tangibly be able to gain that value feeling or that benefit?
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, yes. This is not to say that your excitement may necessarily be expressed in elation. It may be expressed in many different manners.
FEMALE: In psychology, they have a term called “inappropriate affect.” It’s when a person has what psychiatrists or psychologists would call a pathology, and they would ... in talking about something that in mass beliefs you’re supposed to have one response to, they have a very different response. For instance, if somebody dies or disengages they say that but they’re laughing about it. So are they tapping into that excitement of the experience, but it’s termed as inappropriate in this reality?
ELIAS: It is dependent upon the individual; at times, yes. But it is not a rule. It is associated with the individual and what is influencing their expression in the moment, but you are correct. At times this is what is being expressed. But do not be confused, for this is an example of what you have expressed and what I responded to in saying to you that the excitement may not necessarily wear the mask of what you associate with the term of excitement, such as laughter.
RODNEY: I’m thinking of the time recently when I wound up upside down in the river, caught between the rocks. What comes to mind is there was excitement, but it wasn’t joy or laughter or anything that I could really describe. But one thing that I noticed was that it focused my attention in a profound way. It was like, WOW! And I sensed it, I hear you saying that about value being a component of discovery...
RODNEY: ...and it may be really bizarre, painful – physically painful – or threatening, but it is part of discovery. (Elias nods) Am I getting a sense, is this what you’re saying about value?
FEMALE: Is value also associated with intensity of experience, of change – not so much good or bad, but intensity of an experience creates a value?
ELIAS: The awareness of it creates the intensity, not necessarily the experience itself. But as in these examples offered, you may or may not create an intensity of the experience itself; but the intensity is generated in association with the recognition and the awareness of what you have created, which may not diminish what you generate in an actual physical manner (looking at Rodney) as in your example of a physical pain of dashing upon the rocks. The pain is not diminished, but it is also not the focal point. It is not the center.
FEMALE: That’s a by-product in a sense, the pain.
ELIAS: It becomes a side expression, for your attention is moved to you and the recognition of your value, of what you value, and of your experience and of what you are generating in the moment. As your attention moves to the awareness of you and what you are creating in association with your value, you do experience an intensity, but not necessarily of elation or joy or sadness or discomfort.
FEMALE: That’s a judgment, right?
ELIAS: It is neutral but intense.
FEMALE: Very eastern! A very eastern idea. (Elias laughs) Am I getting too directional?
ELIAS: Actually perhaps very northern (much laughter, and Elias looks very amused), cosmically speaking! (Chuckles, and continued laughter)
FEMALE: So if we’re aware of what we create ... for example, you had asked us what our values are, and by stating my values I thought I’d figured out what they are. Right now I’m realizing I don’t...
ELIAS: Quite! And this is the point!
FEMALE: ...and adventure is one of the values, but still it’s like ... and by doing that I’m becoming stagnant and not moving forward. It’s incomplete thoughts and incomplete values.
ELIAS: Do not confuse preferences with value. You each incorporate preferences, many preferences, in association with your wants and also in association with your beliefs. But preferences are not the only expression of value. Value is not limited to your preferences. (Pause)
FEMALE: Could that be because sometimes we don’t know what our preferences are?
ELIAS: Quite correct. You are unaware of the identification of what you value. You are unaware of the identification of your preferences, and in this time framework this subject matter of preferences is significant, for this is what you may term to be a furthering of your awareness of yourselves.
You have been moving in increments, in steps, so to speak. You have identified that beliefs exist. You have identified that you incorporate beliefs. You have identified many of the beliefs that you do incorporate or that you express. You have identified the action of your communications. You have explored different expressions that you incorporate. You have allowed yourselves to move into more of an expression of freedom in creating and generating what you want within your individual realities.
But now you move more into self more clearly, to identify what are your preferences. What are the beliefs that you express in association with automatic responses, which are very automatic and do not incorporate thought? And you do not offer yourselves much communication in association with automatic responses, either.
FEMALE: So is an automatic response in a sense an unspoken preference or an unconscious preference?
ELIAS: Not necessarily. It may not be associated with a preference at all.
FEMALE: Preferences can change. It’s not a stationary thing.
ELIAS: This is correct, but automatic responses are not necessarily associated with preferences. They are automatic responses. They are the action of incorporating automatic pilot.
And in this, you express to yourselves that you lose time or that you do not incorporate enough time or enough energy to accomplish all that you want. You incorporate quite enough time and energy to accomplish any action that you want or any manifestation, but you do not pay attention. You do not pay attention to your time or to your actions – what you DO – and how much of your time you are incorporating in the action of automatic pilot and incorporating motions in mundane activities that are quite repetitive, and you merely respond automatically.
FEMALE: Well, maybe we need to not pay as much attention to automatic responses so that we can be open to these other discovery, value things. We’ve already got those other ones down. It’s become a customary thing, so we can do it without thinking about it much or without responding to it, and we can focus on new ways or the other values, the discovery process.
ELIAS: Or so you think. (Smiling)
MALE: If the autopilot is based on beliefs and we have the ability to be more aware of ourselves, we can see the emotion that is connected to the belief and then the belief starts to change and the autopilot changes as well, correct? Because the autopilot is based on the ... I’m not familiar with what you would refer to it as, but Seth would refer to it as the hidden beliefs or the beliefs that we’re not really properly aware of.
ELIAS: Paying attention to.
MALE: Paying attention to, correct.
ELIAS: Let me offer you a scenario. You engage a vehicle. You are within the vehicle. You have pressed an invented button in this vehicle which drives this vehicle and steers it automatically. You no longer are steering this vehicle. It is moving in its direction itself.
Now; if you do not disengage that button for automatic movement, what shall the vehicle continue to do?
GROUP: Go automatically; drive; go in a straight line.
ELIAS: Correct, it shall continue to generate the same action that it has been programmed to continue.
Therefore, if I place you within this vehicle and I have blindfolded you and you do not incorporate an awareness objectively that the vehicle has been set in this automatic pilot, how shall you change the direction of the vehicle? For you are not disengaging the automatic direction, therefore how shall you change the direction of the vehicle? You shall not, for you are unaware that it is moving in an automatic direction.
And what does this express? It limits your choices. It does not eliminate your choices; you continue to incorporate some choices, but it does limit your choices.
In very similar manner you all express automatic responses, and in those automatic responses they are precisely that, automatic, and you are wearing a blindfold and you are not viewing them, and this is the reason that it is so very significant and powerful to be noticing.
VERONICA: Do you ever get done noticing and become totally aware of yourself, and is that when you move out of this dimension? Are we constantly looking at ourselves, studying ourselves? Are we ever going to get down to that bottom layer in this dimension?
ELIAS: There is no bottom layer. There is no finish line. The action of consciousness is continuous becoming, which is continuous self-discovery, never ending, never beginning. This is the action of all of consciousness. You are merely choosing to participate in this one physical dimension in this attention. You incorporate many other attentions which are focused in many other dimensions simultaneously and many other areas of consciousness simultaneous to this attention, and they are all incorporating the same action in different manners.
VERONICA: The action of knowing self?
ELIAS: And becoming and exploring. This is consciousness, and it is its action to explore, for this is the manner in which it expands. And it is not an “it.” (Elias grins, and group laughter) And neither are you! (Chuckles)
And we shall incorporate a break, and in this time framework you may be concentrating your attentions upon yourselves and evaluating what you are creating, and we shall continue. (Chuckles) Very well!
Elias departs at 2:39 AM
ELIAS: Continuing. (Chuckles, and a pause) And?
FEMALE: We’ve forgotten where you left off! (Laughter)
ELIAS: Ah, but I have not! (Grinning)
FEMALE: I know! (Laughing)
TED: I have a question. I’ve been getting a lot of blue imagery lately, and I know that that’s you, but I want to ask one specific question. It has been stated by our medical belief system personnel that a Viagra side effect is blue vision. I was wondering if you had anything to do with that? (Much laughter, and Elias laughs)
ELIAS: I would very much like to be crediting myself with such an invention! But alas, I must allow you all your own creation! (Much laughter, and Elias grins broadly)
TED: Thank you, Elias! Continuing...
ELIAS: Continuing! (Chuckles) And NOW where is your attention?
JERRY: On automatic responses.
ELIAS: Ah! Of what? (Laughter) What would be your automatic response?
JERRY: I want an answer!
ELIAS: Ah! (Chuckles)
SCOTT: Was the lady outside picking up garbage Tumold family? She was in here fixing the air-conditioning too, for a second. It’s just an impression.
ELIAS: (Chuckling) And this would be where your attention is? (Group laughter) Not here!
Yes, you are correct in your impression, but this is an excellent example of NOT paying attention in the now and not being quite present...
SCOTT: Well, what else is new?
ELIAS: ...but concerning yourself with garbage. (Loud laughter) And how creative to offer yourself impressions concerning garbage! (Laughter continues, and Elias chuckles)
And what may be some other expressions of your attention of the now – or not?
GILLIAN: Filling my stomach, feeding myself!
ELIAS: Ah, and what is your experience?
GILLIAN: Oh! I feel satisfied now! (Elias chuckles and the group laughs)
ELIAS: Which in your terms is always pleasurable!
GILLIAN: Definitely! (Elias chuckles)
ELIAS: And as for you all, other than the select few that have been bold enough to offer? (Elias looks around the room)
Mice – I have generated the creation from the onset of this forum of mice! (Laughter) At least I am consistent. (Grinning and chuckling to himself) Little mice that do not speak!
GILLIAN: You mentioned earlier in the session about the need for drama, that our creations must ... the need for them to be dramatic, not necessarily pleasurable. And I think of Shakespeare and the quotation, “All the world’s a stage.” Did he have an awareness when he said that? Was he aware of the point of view that you expressed of the need for drama?
ELIAS: Not necessarily a need, but many times a preference.
GILLIAN: Did he have a kind of enlightenment that you presented today, did he feel that?
ELIAS: In association with drama?
GILLIAN: In association with his worldview?
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking.
GILLIAN: Is there an aspect in drama that’s associated with challenge and moving through more efficiently?
ELIAS: Yes. Many individuals experience that type of expression of challenge associated with drama. Some individuals merely generate drama for its mere excitement or that it provides an interest and satisfies a curiosity.
FEMALE: Does it also not help focus your attention right on the now? If there’s a lot of drama and energy happening in front of you that you created, it sort of pulls your attention in, doesn’t it?
ELIAS: Correct; not necessarily to yourself, but to the now.
FEMALE: I see.
ELIAS: Now the trick is to be incorporating both: the now and yourself.
JOHN: I’m a little confused about what attention actually is. I might be paying attention to about umpteen different things in the moment, but how does it work? When you say “attention,” people are giving answers as to one singular thing they’re paying attention to, and that is never the case. Is what you’re putting thoughts to ... can you clarify that?
ELIAS: Attention is not thought; attention is you. YOU are the attention.
MALE: Attention from your essence?
FEMALE: So it’s not your body that’s necessarily the attention that you’re...
FEMALE: It’s something, that other sort of ... what seems to us more vague, less specific.
ELIAS: What are you? Who are you? What generates you as being you?
FEMALE: That is the attention?
You are not your mind; you are not your brain. You are not your physical manifestation of the sum of the whole. You are not your thoughts. You direct all of these expressions, but they are not you. They are expressions of you. You are the attention, and you move in many different directions. And you are correct, Rrussell, that your attention moves in many expressions simultaneously, not merely one singular direction, which I have expressed many times. But this idea of you as attention is also unfamiliar and therefore is somewhat difficult to be incorporating an objective understanding of, for generally you view yourselves to be what you see.
You associate yourself and your identity in relation to your physical body manifestation, your gender, and your mind. But what is your mind? Your thoughts, and your thoughts are a mechanism with a different function, but no different than your heartbeat or your breath. It is a function. It is a mechanism, an objective physical expression associated with your physical manifestation, your physical body consciousness. It is not you. It is a mechanism of you that you project. This is the reason that I continue to express to you all to pay attention to you.
Now; let me express to you that you may be paying attention to actions and not moving your attention to thought. You each incorporate time frameworks in which you may be quite focused in your attention and you may not necessarily be listening to thought. And were you to be questioned, your response would be that you had been incorporating no thought, blank. You each incorporate these types of experiences which is an evidence to you that thought is not attention.
RODNEY: What’s the relationship between our objective awareness and attention? They’re not the same are they? Or are they?
ELIAS: No. They are not.
RODNEY: They are not the same.
ELIAS: No. Attention is you.
Now; you choose to participate in this physical manifestation in this physical reality. Therefore, you also choose to participate in association with the design and the blueprint of this physical dimension. In this design, it incorporates duality, not to be confused with duplicity. Every manifestation within your reality incorporates an aspect of duality or an association with duality.
Now; in generating a physical manifestation of yourself as an attention, you also generate a duality of awarenesses. One subjective, one objective, which are natural complements to each other. They move together simultaneously. One does not follow the other.
In this, your attention moves. You move your attention, as yourself, in association with the objective or the subjective expressions. They also generate different functions in association with the duality of your reality, your physical dimension.
What are the base elements of your reality?
RODNEY: The base elements?
ELIAS: What are the base elements of your awareness? Subjective, objective. What are they? The reflection of these two base elements of your reality.
RODNEY: How so?
ELIAS: Subjective: emotion, communication. Objective: sexuality, physical manifestation. Therefore the function of the subjective is communication in many different forms. The function of the objective is to create physical manifestations, objective imagery.
The subjective is attentive to one subject within any time framework or any moment. The objective is the manifestation of abstract imagery. This provides the creativity. For the subjective expresses one subject matter, the object generates thousands of expressions of that subject matter, both in association with exploration.
RODNEY: Getting back to attention, in relation to all of this. I suspect that I have maybe not a clear idea whatsoever of what real attention is. I want to ask you, when John started speaking my awareness immediately was shifted from something else to what he was saying. My sense of myself is that that’s a shift in my attention...
RODNEY: ...so when I’m aware of what I’m aware of, is that an indication to me of where my attention is, at least in that moment?
RODNEY: But I have other attentions that are subjective?
ELIAS: No. It is a matter of movement of attention.
RODNEY: Does that mean that my attention is singular, and that it moves from one thing to another?
ELIAS: Not necessarily.
RODNEY: I can be attentive to more than one thing at a time?
RODNEY: So if I’m aware of these three things, I drop one and pick up another.
RODNEY: So it is singular in a sense.
ELIAS: No. (Quiet laughter)
ELIAS: Not necessarily. It is a matter of direction, and this also is associated with our discussion previous to our break in association with knowing what influences you, what are the expressed beliefs and what are the preferences, and therefore what is influencing your attention in how it moves, how YOU move as the attention.
If you express a preference or an interest in a particular action or subject matter, you shall gravitate to that subject matter and move your attention more quickly in association with that type of action. If you do not generate an interest, so to speak, in another subject matter, you shall be less likely to move your attention as quickly to that.
If this individual is engaging a conversation with another individual and is speaking of a business arrangement and you do not necessarily incorporate a preference for that subject matter, you shall not move your attention as quickly to fully clearly engage that information. You may move some of your attention, not very clearly, to incorporate some of the information which is being discussed.
Another individual may be incorporating another conversation of different subject matter concerning an experience that the individual has generated in association with an encounter with a ghost, and perhaps you express more of a preference or an interest in that subject matter. You may continue to incorporate some of your attention in this conversation, and also some of your attention, more of your attention, in relation to this conversation and receive the information from both simultaneously.
RODNEY: So it’s not only not singular, it’s a complex thing that kind of flows with multiple inputs and recognition.
ELIAS: Correct. Now...
RODNEY: If I am going to dedicate some time to looking to examining self, being with self to see how attention moves, I would be inclined to pick very singular events as a starting place, just to see how I jump from one awareness to another.
ELIAS: Individually perhaps you may engage that type of action. That also would be associated with you individually and your preferences.
VERONICA: And in studying his awarenesses, where then does thought play into that? How does he or any of us know whether it’s thought or whether it’s true awareness? Is this the truth or is it just my thought because of my belief systems? Is there ever a truth?
ELIAS: Truth in association with your physical dimension incorporates little interplay in your expressed values. Truth is not what you assess it to be. There are many truths within consciousness, but the expression of them within your reality appears to be insignificant.
The one truth that you somewhat value – somewhat – is love. But I express to you that you “somewhat” value it for, for the most part you incorporate an incorrect definition of it as a truth; therefore your understanding of the truth of love is limited.
Most truths that hold within consciousness you would deem to be insignificant and not necessarily valuable to your exploration within this physical dimension, for you are more familiar with the expression of beliefs.
Is there an expressed truth in beliefs? No. Do you seek to find the expressed truth in beliefs? Yes, and this is your snare. For there is no expressed truth in beliefs, and this is what you are moving into an awareness of in the action of this shift: being aware of your beliefs, recognizing that they are not your enemy, they are merely the design of this physical dimension, and you are not singular and you are not merely this one attention. You are essence, and as essence you incorporate countless, literally numberless, attentions.
This particular physical dimension, as I have stated many times, is one of the most intricate physical dimensions within consciousness, offering you the opportunity to view yourself as essence as mirrored in your actual physical manifestation, for you are so very diverse within this particular physical dimension.
You all are aware that even if you define your attention as thought ... which to this point most individuals have, for you have incorporated an incorrect definition of attention and of thought and of communications. But this also is the point of this shift, to be redefining, and therefore redefining your reality. But in this, within your manifestations as what you view yourselves to be, human beings, in any one time framework or moment you may move your attention in association with MANY expressions simultaneously.
(Looking at Veronica) You incorporate the role of a mother. In any one moment you may be moving your attention to yourself incorporating an action of tidying your home or engaging a meal, and your attention may also be directed to your small one and what is being expressed, and you may be aware of your television or your recordings; you may be aware of alterations within light within your room. All of these actions are occurring simultaneously, and you are aware of all of them simultaneously.
Each expression of that awareness is a movement of an aspect of your attention in a different direction. In similar manner as essence, there are numberless attentions that are being expressed simultaneously. Incorporating an awareness of ANY of these expressions does not diminish you as you, and you cannot separate any of those attentions or any of those awarenesses from you as you.
VERONICA: Because they’re all you.
ELIAS: Correct. Therefore, you do not absorb any of these awarenesses into yourself to incorporate yourself as your whole self, correct? You already are your whole self. You are merely moving your attention to incorporate awarenesses objectively – (looking at Rodney) the difference of attention and awareness: receiving the information and acknowledging, recognizing.
ELIAS: Yes, this is the awareness objectively. But the attention has been directed to many different areas and actions simultaneously.
In like manner, you as essence incorporate, even within this one physical dimension, many focuses of attention. They all occur simultaneously; they are all you. They are different expressions of you, for they are different awarenesses of you, different directed attentions.
MALE: It sounds to me like attention would be synonymous with consciousness. We are attention; we are consciousness. Therefore we direct our consciousness, or something.
ELIAS: Figuratively speaking, in relation to what you know and understand within this physical reality. For attention may not necessarily be defined as that within consciousness, not associated with a physical dimension or a physical reality. But in a manner of speaking, yes.
JIM: Elias, I know we have multiple consciousnesses, or multiple focuses, simultaneously. When one disengages and has a transition or whatever, what happens to that consciousness? I understand it continues on. Does it reincarnate again? Does it go somewhere else? Do we make another focus somewhere else that somehow incorporates the thoughts or the memories or the consciousness? What happens to that personality?
ELIAS: What would be the point of reincarnation?
JIM: Since they’re all simultaneous, anyway.
ELIAS: And also it would be quite redundant. You have experienced what you chose to experience and explored what you chose to explore, and they are all simultaneous. In this, each attention continues in whatever exploration it chooses.
JIM: In other realities?
ELIAS: Perhaps, or perhaps within other areas of consciousness, not necessarily associated with physical dimensions. It is not a matter of movement in planes or higher or lower. It is a matter of choice, and which direction that attention chooses to be exploring once it has accomplished each one of its explorations.
JIM: Do any of them choose to come back to this physical plane a second time?
ELIAS: No. Once again, that would be redundant.
Let me express to you, my friend, you are not learning; therefore, do not misunderstand. But were you to engage a class within a school and you moved through that course of study, so to speak, and completed that course of study, what would be the point to engage it again, but to be redundant? You have already accomplished. You have already engaged the course of study. You have offered yourself the information and you have completed. Therefore, you choose to move to another experience. It is quite similar with attentions and with essence and consciousness.
JIM: So if we have thousands of individual focuses that are scattered down through the time line within this particular physical reality, when they disengage they usually don’t usually come back to this physical reality, they just move on to different areas of consciousness?
MALE: I don’t quite understand some of the terminology, words like “again” and “have completed.” Time is not a real parameter of consciousness. It sounds like a sequence of events, and I don’t understand what a sequence of events is, other than a physical manifestation.
ELIAS: I am understanding what you are expressing, but you are engaging a physical manifestation which does incorporate linear time, and therefore this is familiar and it is quite easily understandable in association with language and concepts. Many individuals experience much challenge and difficulty in attempting to understand outside of the expression of sequences of events and linear time, for this is what you know and this is what you are experiencing.
MALE: So are you saying that your description was a metaphor for something you wanted to describe to us but can’t in our language? Your description, could it be considered a metaphor?
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, yes.
MALE: Thank you.
ELIAS: You are welcome.
RODNEY: In investigating my sense of what my attention is and how it moves, you told us to discover that part of ourselves that makes the choices. It seems to me that choice and attention are intimately connected. Would you comment on their relationship to each other?
ELIAS: Yes, you are correct.
Now; this also is a differentiation of awareness, objective awareness. For your attention steers your perception and therefore is the director of your choices, but you may not necessarily incorporate an objective awareness of where you are directing your attention.
FEMALE: So is that what you are telling us to try to do, to be objectively aware of where our attention is moving and how it’s moving, and from that point we’re going to, in the present, notice how we’re reacting to it and then recognize our beliefs, and in doing all of that we’re going to lessen our trauma?
ELIAS: Yes! (Laughter) Which appears quite simple, does it not? (Much laughter)
JON: Where does my subjective awareness generally place its attention in proportion to my attention?
ELIAS: Your attention, generally speaking, is for the most part equally distributed between the objective and the subjective. At times, you may move your attention slightly more to one or the other.
Within your sleep state, your attention moves slightly more to the subjective action, and within your waking state your attention moves slightly more to your objective, but not extremely. It is not what you think, that in your sleep time your attention is entirely focused upon the subjective movement and within your waking time your attention is entirely focused upon your objective awareness. This is not the situation. It is a slight leaning to one or the other within these two states.
JON: My subjective awareness, does it generally focus its attention on the beliefs I’m aligning with? Or does it have some other activity that’s going on?
ELIAS: It is a combination of what you choose to be exploring within that time framework, your direction and the beliefs that are expressed in association with that direction and identifying them; and the objective expression of that is to generate imagery in many, many, many different manners.
JON: Does my objective awareness then ... well, I guess I do communicate to the subjective awareness even though the subjective awareness is supposed to be the communicator, but I guess since I am subjective as well, I automatically communicate to that, and that’s how I’m able to shift its attention.
Let’s say I wanted to shift to a different belief. I really want to do that with my subjective attention, so I go through this process and I notice what my beliefs are, I address to them and so forth, and then I want to shift my attention to a different belief. I guess I would have to do that at the subjective level?
ELIAS: The subjective and the objective complement; they move in harmony. One does not follow the other. They move together. They merely express different functions, different actions, but they move in complement together. Therefore, it is not a matter of shifting your attention to the subjective and generating some action which the objective shall follow. It is a matter of paying attention to you. You ARE the attention. Generate an awareness of that attention.
As I have stated, the subjective movement and expressions, contrary to what you think, are not hidden from you. You merely do not notice. You are not moving your awareness objectively in association with the attention of the subjective movement, but it is not hidden from you; and the manner in which you become objectively aware of what you are expressing subjectively is to pay attention to what you do. In paying attention to what you do, you offer your thought mechanism more accurate information, and it shall more accurately translate to you what is being expressed and what your direction is and what you are creating.
Your thoughts do not always match what you do. You may think, “My desire is to walk across this room. My desire is to walk across this room. My desire is to walk across this room now. My desire is to walk across this room.” And you stay seated and you do not move, and you do not incorporate the action of walking across the room. Your thoughts are translating information but inaccurately.
They may be translating information in association with how you are moving your attention, but your attention may be projected outside of yourself; and perhaps you view within your visual capacity some object or an individual across the room that you think you want to engage, for what you are actually communicating to yourself through your visual sense, which is an avenue of communication, is an attraction or an appealingness, a draw to some object or individual across the room, but you may merely be recognizing that attraction through that particular sense. That is not to say that your desire is to move across the room. You have inputted information and you have mistranslated it, for your attention is not being directed to what you are actually doing and what you are actually communicating to yourself in relation to what you want.
You misunderstand information that you offer to yourselves, for you offer your thought process incomplete information and therefore it expresses incomplete translation.
RODNEY: I’m noticing myself and my attention, which is focused very much on you. I decided to alter that attention, and I focused on Frank as I was focusing on you. Thirty seconds later, he reaches forward and touches the back of my hand. (To Frank) Now, were you aware that I was...
FRANK: I wanted to communicate with you, that’s why I did that. So there was a thing, sure.
RODNEY: Was he responding to my shifting my attention, drawing him in? Because then you immediately said we draw what we focus our attention to.
ELIAS: In actuality, my statement of draw was not that you draw what you are focusing upon, but that you may misinterpret a draw as a desire and that your thoughts may offer you incomplete translation.
RODNEY: Are my thoughts incorporating a lot of mistranslation here? (Laughing)
ELIAS: Now; what I may express to you in this exchange is that you project an energy outwardly that is received by another individual. It is the other individual’s choice how they shall be responsive or if they shall be responsive, but the energy has been received. Generally speaking, the other individual shall be responsive, and it is your choice how you shall receive their projection of energy. This is the manner of exchange. You move your attention, you project energy, and you receive energy in similar manner to what you project.
RODNEY: One more quick question: you used the terminology “paying attention to your attention.” Can I use the word noticing there, noticing attention?
RODNEY: Because I get kinda caught up in a big swirl...
ELIAS: Very well.
RODNEY: ...when you say “pay attention to attention.”
ELIAS: Very well.
RODNEY: Thank you.
LORRAINE: In my reality, if I want there to be no war with Iraq, is it best for me not to put any of my attention on anything that is currently happening?
ELIAS: This also is a choice. I may express to you that perhaps you may examine what influences you in the wish for no war.
LORRAINE: What beliefs influence my wish for no war?
LORRAINE: Okay, I’ll think about the reasons I don’t want there to be a war.
ELIAS: There are judgments that are being expressed. Were there not to be judgments, it would matter not.
LORRAINE: You mean there wouldn’t be one?
ELIAS: Not necessarily, but it would matter not within you whether there is an expression of war or there is not.
(Strongly) And THIS is the energy of acceptance, and THIS is the energy that each of you generating shall create a collective that shall dissipate the energy of creating a war, for it shall matter not. But in this time framework it matters, and therefore you create or you do not, for it matters.
CAROLE: But if we don’t put a judgment on war, that it isn’t good, it isn’t bad, it’s just something, then we help it to dissipate?
ELIAS: Correct, BUT merely if you are expressing that genuinely. For if your motivation is to falsely express to yourself, “It matters not and therefore it shall not be,” you are continuing to express the judgment.
CAROLE: In my understanding there are many versions of this reality, and I have my attention now in this version that I’m experiencing. So if I, in my attention, don’t want a war, I will just have my attention in a version where war doesn’t manifest. Is that not correct?
ELIAS: You may, yes.
CAROLE: And if I want the war, I will keep my attention in the version where a war does manifest.
ELIAS: Not necessarily. It is not necessarily a situation of...
CAROLE: If that’s my criteria for changing my attention.
ELIAS: I am understanding what you are expressing. It is a matter of the expressed beliefs. In this let me remind you, you may incorporate expressed beliefs and objectively not agree with your own expressed beliefs (general group agreement and laughter), and that continues to express an energy outwardly and generate manifestations.
You may incorporate beliefs associated with protection and possession, and you may disagree with your own beliefs objectively. You may disagree and you may express to yourself and to all other individuals, “I do not believe in war.” This is an inaccurate statement, for what is the motivation for the action of war? Protection, possession, instruction, the right or the wrong, the expression of change. You do not incorporate these beliefs? Oh yes, you do! You may disagree objectively with your beliefs, but this is not to say that they may not be expressed.
Therefore, you may march and you may hold signs and you may express outwardly that you disagree or that you do not believe in war, and simultaneously in each day you may be incorporating actions that are influenced by the same beliefs that create the actions of war, and therefore you also are participating in that projection of energy that creates that action.
Now; I may also express to you, some individuals do incorporate the action of creating a reality in genuineness in which they do not participate and do not pay attention to the choices of masses of individuals that may be contemplating or moving in the direction of war.
CAROLE: I would probably fit into that category. I don’t read any of it; I don’t have anything to do with it. People keep sending me things, and I just delete them. I can’t even feel any interest in putting any energy into any of it.
ELIAS: And you are not creating it, and you are projecting an energy within consciousness which is experienced of not creating that type of expression, which is lent to many other individuals generating similar energy expressions of not paying attention to what is being expressed. But there are many individuals that are paying attention and that are generating worry and apprehensiveness and fear, and are expressing the energy in association with the manifestation of that action.
This is the significance of paying attention to what you are doing and what you are expressing and what beliefs are influencing that. For what energy are you projecting which is quite affecting within consciousness, and what do you lend energy to?
RODNEY: I do pay attention to the major aspects of the day. I don’t get involved with endless discussion about it, but I do spend maybe 15 or 30 minutes a day very focused on the news of the major events. I’m opening to the idea that it doesn’t matter to me, but that I am quite interested in what the world is doing.
ELIAS: I am not expressing to you to not pay attention and therefore you shall not create a war. I am merely expressing to you that some individuals do choose this particular type of expression as their method to genuinely be paying attention to their individual preferences and not expressing the judgment of whether the action is incorporated or not.
RODNEY: Well, it’s a very personal question, but I am opening to the idea “am I creating a judgment here,” and it seems to me that I’m moving in the direction of if they want to have a war then have a war! I mean, it matters not to me, and my paying attention is one of interest and curiosity.
ELIAS: I am understanding.
RODNEY: Am I being deceptive to myself, I think is the question.
ELIAS: And the manner in which you answer this question within yourself is to pay attention to what you do within your day. Are you incorporating actions that are influenced by beliefs of protection? Are you incorporating actions that are influenced in relation to possessions and the protection of them? Are you incorporating judgments in association with other individuals’ choices and opinions? You may, as I have stated many times, incorporate your opinions and your preferences and not judgment.
RODNEY: Thank you.
ELIAS: You are welcome.
JUNE: Is judgment where you’re ending up giving the energy, you’re losing the energy? How can I say this? You were saying that you receive energy on what you project in energy. If one is making a judgment – and it doesn’t matter what the judgment call is on – they’re actually not aware of giving out that energy, or are they aware?
ELIAS: At times you are, and at times you are not.
JUNE: So at times we’re not aware.
JUNE: Sometimes we’re not aware of when we judge. Speaking for myself, I know there’s times when I’m not aware that I’m judging, so I have to be aware of that...
JUNE: ...because if I am judging, I’m actually losing my own personal energy.
ELIAS: At times you may be expressing a judgment and you may vehemently deny it, and you may express, “No, I am not judging. This merely is what it is.”
JUNE: And then I’m putting my energy to it, okay. Thank you.
SCOTT: Is there a connection between Enron being corrupt, the supposed power crisis, and the idea of protecting ourselves, the need to protect ourselves?
SCOTT: Cool. (Laughter) That was easy! Also, there’s a connection in reducing trauma, having enough energy for everyone, somewhere in there. I think the trauma, like the energy crisis, is our fears that we won’t be able to protect ourselves in the future, is that...?
ELIAS: Not necessarily. Your fear is of the unfamiliar. There is tremendous movement occurring in this time framework and individuals throughout your world are aware of it, and it is unfamiliar.
Individuals objectively are more informed in relation to their reality objectively than they have been throughout your history. There are more, in your terms, advanced expressions of yourselves in mirroring yourselves as essence and your abilities in objective physical manifestations now than you have generated throughout your history, and this is evidenced through what you create, your mass communications.
You within this room in this now, were you to be manifest each within a time framework of 100 years previous, you would not be within this room, for you would not be aware objectively of each other, for you had not incorporated the manifestation of the type of mass communication that you incorporate now. In actuality, within ten years previous, you would not be within this room together. (Groups murmurs in agreement)
You are rapidly – very rapidly – accelerating in your mirror image of yourselves as essence and the abilities that you incorporate as essence into your physical reality through your creations, through your inventions, which is another aspect of this shift in consciousness. You are accelerating this shift, and you are becoming more aware of your interconnectedness.
What is the terminology that you incorporate in association with your computers now – internet, interconnected!
SCOTT: Related to technology in video games, do they provide a medium for distraction to allow subjective movement? Because I recently started playing with them, I haven’t really touched them much and recently I started playing, and I found it allowed me to really relax and I could think things through and let it go, not cut off the message, not cut off my thought, get the whole translation.
ELIAS: Virtual reality is not so very virtual! (Laughter) Another mirror of yourselves.
What have I expressed to you from the onset of this forum? You are as a hologram, and you create your games to mirror what you are creating in this reality, and it is a game! (Smiling)
KAREN: Elias, can you bring into this discussion ... you were talking about attention, and how does that work with synchronicity, putting off energy and creating not only attention between people but causal events, and aligning that with synchronistic events, as well as people focusing attention on each other and creating some kind of networking that way as well?
ELIAS: It is quite natural. You project energy outward; you draw to yourself similar. It is a natural movement.
You all express a tremendous openness. This is your one expression of interconnectedness which is not blocked by your beliefs in separation. Energy is expressed. You express energy continuously naturally, outwardly.
SCOTT: That’s why it’s the Holiday Inn Express! (Laughter, and Elias laughs) One point!
ELIAS: You naturally draw to yourself as a reflection, and this is the reason that there are no accidents and there are no coincidences. It is all quite purposeful, and you do create a very efficient manner in which to view yourselves and to gauge yourselves in your reflections.
KAREN: By engaging our intuition, things like that?
ELIAS: This is a matter of listening to yourself. Whatever you engage within your reality that may be associated with anything that you view to be outside of yourself – another individual, an environment, a creature – all of this is expressed through your perception as a reflection of you and what you are creating in the moment. For the one individual that you objectively know the least is you; therefore you provide yourself with numberless manners in which you can reflect.
PETE: This is going to sound crazy, but I’m trying to understand you. I created all this – okay, I can accept that, and I created you. Nevertheless, I can’t wait to hear what I have you say next! (Laughter) I already know it, but we’re here to get surprised and you’re going to surprise me, and yet you really can’t because I made you, so I already knew it but yet I’ll be surprised. I’ll accept that.
Somebody back here said something ... I don’t know what’s going on between Rodney and Frank – that’s not what I was talking about – but I think it was you that said there are endless realities out there. So you when you talk about creating your own reality, do you really mean the creation is actually the choice of which reality you want to proceed in?
For example, when Lorraine talked about the war, that was really spinning my mind there. But the “it matters not” phrase comes popping up again. So let’s say Lorraine doesn’t – she endlessly talks about the war, so do I with her – and we’ve just stopped doing that and it matters not. Well, the war could go on, but it still won’t matter to us. Is that what you mean?
PETE: And when we’re creating our reality, we’re just choosing which reality of the many that are before us?
PETE: No, no, no. We are actually creating it.
ELIAS: Yes. There are not many realities that lie before you. You are creating the one that you are experiencing.
PETE: And that becomes one of the endless numbers that could be.
PETE: Now let me ask you a question: did you go through the shift, personally?
ELIAS: I am.
PETE: You’re going through it now?
ELIAS: For it is occurring, and I am interactive with you; although, I do incorporate attentions that within your linear time framework may be viewed as already having experienced the accomplishment of it.
PETE: So you’re a little bit more along the road than maybe we are in awareness.
ELIAS: No, I merely am aware of the attentions.
PETE: That’s what I meant, in awareness. Are you feeling trauma?
PETE: So give us some hints how we shall also not feel the trauma. (Laughter)
ELIAS: And this is what I have offered in this entire conversation!
And in that we shall conclude, my friends, for this IS the information to avoid the trauma in this shift. Remember your value, what you value and how you fulfill that, and in your next moment that you may create some conflict or discomfort, remember how you are fulfilling your value. (Laughter, and Elias chuckles)
I express my encouragement and my supportiveness to you all, and also I offer to you my expression of the genuineness in the truth of love to each of you. I anticipate our next meeting. Be playful!
GROUP: Thank you, Elias. Thank you.
ELIAS: To you all, au revoir.
Elias departs at 4:51 PM.
© 2003 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.