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Friday, July 21, 2000

<  Session 664 (Private)  >

“Final Focuses/Reincarnation”

“Acceptance: Words vs. Example”

“Viewing Other Individuals As You”

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Carole (Aileen).

Elias arrives at 11:36 AM. (Arrival time is 26 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good morning!

CAROLE: Good morning, Elias!

ELIAS: We meet again!

CAROLE: Yes. Very nice to see you! (Elias chuckles) Very nice to see you in Mary’s new digs. (Elias chuckles again) Very nice.

I have some questions. I’m going to start out with a few personal things, which you can just answer quickly, if that’s okay – don’t need a lot of input, just want some basic information – and then after some personal things, I’ll move into some general things, Elias, if that’s okay with you, and time permitting.

ELIAS: Very well.

CAROLE: First, I want to find out about orientation. Am I soft? I really don’t connect when things happen on the physical plane or the physical reality, but I do on the inner ‘cause I see these big things happening on the inner and I interact with them, and so that makes me think I’m soft. Am I a softy? (Pause)


CAROLE: Okay. I think that also, being of soft orientation and an emotional focus, the combination sometimes makes my emotional energy really big, really powerful.

ELIAS: Yes. (Chuckling)

CAROLE: (Laughing) Too much for me, and maybe some other folks too! Okay, I’m wondering if my son Tom, essence name Thomas, is also soft. (Pause)

ELIAS: No; common.

CAROLE: Common, okay. And my son Rick, essence name Tam, is he intermediate? (Pause)

ELIAS: No; common.

CAROLE: Really! That’s interesting. Husband – present husband, essence name Mandell – is he common? (Pause)


CAROLE: Okay. First husband, Thomas, is he intermediate? (Pause)

ELIAS: Common.

CAROLE: Okay. Ex-significant other, Jay, is he soft? (Pause)

ELIAS: No. This individual holds the orientation of intermediate.

CAROLE: Oh, that’s interesting. And my son Tom’s wife Monica, essence name Bridget, is she common? (Pause)


CAROLE: Okay, so I’m pretty much surrounded by commons. It’s a wonder I get along with anybody! (Laughing, and Elias chuckles)

Now, my ex-husband Thomas, who seems to have reconstituted himself in our lives, I’m wondering, is he close to disengagement? (Pause)

ELIAS: This would not be the choice which he is engaging presently, although there is a subjective consideration in relation to this choice.

CAROLE: Okay, so he’s considering it, but it’s not the most probable probability?

ELIAS: Within this present now, no.

CAROLE: Within this present now, okay.

Also, this same person, how is he connected to the lifetime that I had in Ireland, where my name is Aileen and your name is Thomas and we’re husband and wife? How does he connect with that? I feel like there’s something, but I can’t figure out what it is unless he’s also connected strongly with Elias as another fragmentation or something.

ELIAS: No. This is not a fragmentation. This individual participates in that focus in the role of a brother to the focus of this essence.

CAROLE: I see. Okay, so he’s your brother, and that’s how I knew him in that focus.

Recently, I went to the physical location of China in this reality, and met a focus of mine. Right after the first time I visited Nicky and met Vicki, Mary, and Ron in California, after my first visit, I had a connection in the dream state of this focus in China, a young woman in her mid-twenties, and I knew her name was Wu Li. That was the name I got, and I knew it was me in another focus. As a matter of fact, I was so excited, I called Vicki and told her about it.

Well, when I was going to China I said to myself, “I’m going to meet my other focus,” and I thought, “Well, how can that be, Carole? You can’t even speak the language.” It didn’t seem like something that could easily be accomplished. While I was there, the whole group went up to see ... not a monastery, but one of those Chinese pagoda things, and I went into the bathroom and got lost, and when I came out, no one was there. I was just there in China, with all these people not speaking my language, and me not speaking theirs. So I said, “I’ll just wait here, and eventually they’ll come back down,” ‘cause I didn’t want to try to find them on my own.

Well, a young woman came up to me and started talking to me, and I knew after we started talking that this was me. It was a very, very, very incredible experience. I asked her about her age, and she just said “twenties,” and that’s what I had said to myself – she’ll be in her twenties – the same word. That’s when the light bulb went off, and I thought, “Oh my god, this is me.”

And the thing that amazed me was the tone. She is so unhappy with where she is. She wanted me to help her get to America, and all I could think of was, she’s getting reconfigured energy from me here, her other me, one of her other me’s, or focuses, and feeling that that’s where she should be. She wanted me to take her back, get her a husband, take her in my house to clean for me, anything to get to America. She had her beautiful black hair bleached out red so that it would be lighter colored, and she said that she wished she had blue eyes like me and blond hair like me, and I thought, wow, she’s just so connected with this part of herself and myself.

It felt like I knew what was going on, and it felt like she didn’t, and I felt like ... we had a real language barrier. She barely could speak English, and I certainly can’t speak very much Chinese, maybe ten phrases, but we managed to connect quite a bit in conversation. We sat there and talked the whole time the group was up on top of this mountain visiting this pagoda, and that was about two-and-a-half hours, and then finally she left, and I thought to myself ... oh, and her name was Mai Wu Li, ‘cause she was able to tell me what her name was, and I thought, unbelievable! Of course I know it’s believeable, but nevertheless, it was just a wonderful experience to actually meet another focus on the total other side of the world, total other side of the world!

ELIAS: And does this not offer you a tremendous validation of your ability to be interpreting your impressions and the information that you offer to yourself?

CAROLE: Yes, and sometimes it’s easier to interpret things that are out of the norm. Sometimes the norm things are harder to interpret, such as relationships – should I stay with this one, should I stay away from that one – those things sometimes seem hard. Things like this ... I mean, it was just so obvious that this was what was going on, and I wondered ... it was helpful to me, for me to meet her. I don’t know if it was helpful to her, for her to meet me.

But I basically tried to tell her where she was planted, and if she really wanted to come to the United States, there were ways that she could, and I gave her my card, my business card with my numbers and everything on it, so if she ever gets to that point, I’m sure she’ll hang onto it, and who knows, you know? Maybe she’ll come to my side of the world, you know? (Laughing, and Elias chuckles) But that was a beautiful experience. The thing that amazed me was the tone – a very strange feeling, a very strange feeling! (Elias chuckles)

These questions are about my son, Rick, whose essence name is Tam, the one who is diagnosed with schizophrenia. I know I’ve talked to you about this before. I’m wondering who talks to him. He has a male and a female that talk to him. The male supposedly is the leader of Eckankar, that religious organization, and the female is another Eck master, or so they call themselves. Now, is he hearing from these people? Are they something totally different, another essence, or are they aspects of himself?

ELIAS: At times, he is interactive with other essences. At other times, he is interactive with other aspects of his own essence. For the most part, the interaction that he engages is between himself and other aspects of himself as essence.

This, within the framework of your beliefs associated with your officially accepted reality, becomes confusing at times, for there is a recognition objectively that these are other individuals, and there is a knowing of the reality of these other individuals and their actual manifestations and presence without the veil of singularity and association with linear time framework, but this conflicts with the officially accepted reality, in which you participate in the design of veils of separation, of time frameworks, and of different aspects of essence.

Therefore, he views these communications to be occurring between himself and other individuals, but does not associate those other individuals as aspects of himself, for this is not the design of your officially accepted reality.

You focus your attention upon one aspect that you recognize as you. You may offer yourself information concerning other expressions of yourself within different focuses or probable realities or alternate realities, but in your association with any interaction with any of those expressions, you create a distinction, within your objective awareness and understanding, between yourself and those expressions. You differentiate. This is the design of your beliefs, which this individual incorporates also, as I have expressed to you previously.

An element of the conflict that this individual and other individuals that choose this type of manifestation also experience is the alignment with the beliefs that are expressed within your reality, and the official design of your physical reality, and their choice not to be manifesting within the guidelines of that design.

Therefore, as he and other individuals creating similar types of focuses align with this reality in certain aspects and align with certain belief systems, they create judgments upon themselves, and also automatic associations in relation to your officially accepted reality.

It is not officially accepted to be interactive with other aspects of yourself, and if you are creating this action, you are deemed to be malfunctioning.

CAROLE: And that’s why sometimes the information he gets is at one pole and sometimes at the other, because of the duplicity of his own trying to come up with solutions to what he sees as his dilemmas, so that other aspects of himself will feed this back? Because he’s got a situation that he obsesses over, and sometimes he gets the answer in one direction, and sometimes he gets it in the other direction.

ELIAS: Quite.

CAROLE: And I say, well, just trust yourself and don’t listen to these people or whoever or whatever this is, you know? (Laughing)

ELIAS: Ah, but this IS his self! Therefore, as you express to him, “Merely trust yourself,” it becomes more confusing, for these are expressions of himself.

CAROLE: So he feels both ways.

ELIAS: Correct. He is allowing input objectively and recognizing this input of information from different aspects of himself, but they are not expressing information which may be similar in their individual expressions. Therefore, it becomes confusing, for he is allowing the perceptions of different aspects of self. Each self, each focus of attention, creates a different perception.

CAROLE: Would this go along with – he’s Sumari aligned with Tumold – looking strongly outside of himself to find direction? Which is very foreign pretty much to me, but it seems really, really strong in him to really want to do that, to have this direction from this ... like now he says he hates God, and I keep saying there is no God, but it’s like it has to be something other than him that’s directing.

ELIAS: Quite.

Now; this also is an expression of looking to outside influences, such as yourself or other individuals, and attempting to be creating a balance with those influences and the influences of self – what you term to be the voices that he interacts with. Those are, for the most part, aspects of himself.

He also, as I have expressed to you previously, holds belief systems in alignment with mass expressions, and this becomes confusing within himself, for it is also influencing of his perception of what he is interacting with – or what information he is interacting with – for he aligns with the belief that this type of interaction is abnormal, therefore placing a judgment upon his interaction with these other aspects of self and creating suspicion in relation to these other aspects of self.

As he creates this suspicion, he also is aligning with the beliefs objectively that this type of interaction is a malfunction within himself, and this influences his perception, and his perception turns. Therefore, the input that he receives through interaction with other aspects of self is, in a manner of speaking, colored, for his perception is interacting through a type of colored lens, so to speak, which is the influence of his beliefs.

Now; in the action of acceptance, he neutralizes the action of placing the colored lens over the perception, and therefore removes the suspicion of the interaction, and in that action, he may allow himself to view that the input is not in actuality as conflicting or confusing as he perceives it to be. His perception, in the color of suspicion and lack of acceptance, creates an understanding of the information which is offered, or a translation of the information which is offered, which assumes a suspicious and untrustworthy hue.

CAROLE: That’s interesting, and I was weaving in and out of getting what you were saying. I’ll have to re-read it to totally comprehend what you’re saying.

I wonder, too, why he thinks that if he commits suicide, and this is what he says, that he will return – because he has reincarnational beliefs, and this is a strong thing – as a conjoined twin, joined at the head.

At first I just thought it was ... if this is gonna happen, and I know this is gonna happen, that’s a way of him not having to commit suicide. But now I’m wondering if maybe it’s like twin aspects or something, or the duplicity, or once again, two sides of the fence, being paralyzed, not being able to move forward. I don’t know, I’m kind of casting about, but what’s with the conjoined twins thing?

ELIAS: This is an example of what we are speaking of – the reception of information through other aspects of himself in communication, and his allowance of himself, in an awareness, to view and to recognize certain actions which are occurring presently within other aspects of self. But within his perception, as it is influenced by the energy of his beliefs, he creates a translation, and the translation is expressed in this type of manner.

CAROLE: Okay, so that gives him something to get hold of, to explain what he’s experiencing.

ELIAS: Correct. It is an objective translation which he is designing, which in quite physical terms, within himself, appears to be providing some expression of sense.

CAROLE: Yeah, ‘cause it’s two aspects, two twins, and I never even thought about it until sitting here in front of you. It didn’t occur to me, so something in the interchange here has made me see it from a wider perspective.

ELIAS: This be the reason, Aileen, that I speak to you repeatedly of your interaction with this individual, for in your offering of acceptance, this provides an objective example to him of the action of acceptance, which he views objectively little expression outside of himself of this type of expression of acceptance.

Therefore, what he views outside of himself, he incorporates in similar manner to other individuals – ALL other individuals – in comparison with himself, and as he views a lack of acceptance of his choice of reality and his interaction with his reality in this physical dimension, his attempt is to be aligning with what he views outside of himself, therefore creating a sameness and therefore allowing himself some expression of validation, for this is what you create within your physical reality, and in his interaction, he is creating the same type of action.

You ALL create this type of action. You look outside of yourselves for validation of self, for you have forgotten how to be offering yourself these validations from within – and this IS an expression of duplicity – and as you view outside of yourself and you allow yourself to view sameness, you validate yourself, and you express to yourself that you are acceptable and that you hold worth.

CAROLE: This is aligning with mass belief systems though, when you do that, and we’re learning that mass belief systems are just belief systems, and to recognize them as such, and to neutralize them so as not to give them power.

ELIAS: Quite, but this is an automatic action that you create. As you encounter another individual that expresses in difference to yourself, there is an automatic response, WITHOUT thought. You need be creating no thought process in relation to this action. It is an automatic action – which IS an expression of duplicity – which is very familiar to you, and in this, as you view actions and choices of other individuals outside of yourself, those that you deem to be different from yourself are unacceptable, for they threaten you, for you offer yourselves validation of self and of your worth through your comparison of self to other individuals.

Let me express to you, Aileen, how very often do individuals seek out other individuals in groups that you deem to be groups of supportiveness, and for what reason?

CAROLE: Validation.

ELIAS: For the reason of sameness, that as you view other individuals that are experiencing or creating choices or aligning with philosophies or thought processes or emotional expressions that are the same as yourself, you offer yourself a validation.

CAROLE: It seems that it’s creating less conflict for people that do experience this or take part in this, such as AA or Al-Anon or any of the self-help groups. They seem to take benefits from it, but that’s going back to aligning with mass belief systems, or segments of mass belief systems. So is it, in the last analysis, beneficial?

ELIAS: In part, as a stepping stone, so to speak, but as you offer yourself more information and you widen your awareness objectively, you also begin recognizing how you hold your attention outside of self and WHY you hold your attention outside of self.

And as you recognize that the reason that you focus your attention outside is that you may be offering yourself the identification of sameness and this shall validate you, and the reason that you create that action is that you objectively do not recognize how to be validating self within self without outside comparison, and as you offer yourself more information in conjunction with your beliefs and allow yourself the identification of your beliefs and the recognition of your beliefs, you also recognize that this is an expression of duplicity. You are already discounting of self. You are creating movement from a beginning point, figuratively speaking, of discounting and distrust of self.

Therefore, you view outside of self and grasp at expressions that shall be the same or similar to your expressions, and this shall provide you with a validation of self, rather than offering yourself the validation within in an expression of acceptance, and therefore creating no necessity for the pulling to yourself validation from without.

Your son creates this same action in similar manner to other individuals – most individuals throughout your planet – for this is an automatic expression in relation to mass belief systems, and mass belief systems are merely the mass expression of individual beliefs.

CAROLE: And so I’m his group, because he always says, “I talk to you, Ma, because there’s no one else I can talk to. I can tell you all these things,” and I know he’s looking to me for validation, and I validate that he’s having those experiences. But if it causes him such discomfort, part of me wants to say, “You can move on to other experiences,” but in some ways that’s like saying, “That’s not such a great experience.” But it does seem like it causes a lot of problems and conflict in his life to continue to have that choice of focus.

ELIAS: Ah, and we have also discussed your participation in this exchange with this individual, and how this individual continues to move in the expression of certain choices and design of direction, for he is continuously offering himself his payoff.

CAROLE: Ah, and he does have a payoff.

ELIAS: Quite, and you participate in this payoff with him.

CAROLE: By providing so much?

ELIAS: Correct.


ELIAS: You may be the example of acceptance, in your acceptance of self and your acceptance of his choices, without offering what he necessarily seeks in objective validation.

CAROLE: That would be wonderful, if I could figure out how to do that! (Laughing, and Elias chuckles) It makes really good sense. It’s difficult, though, in the carrying out. I could probably cut off some of the physical things, but leave some of the emotional ... I don’t know. I really don’t.

ELIAS: Let me express to you, your acceptance shall automatically be expressing an aspect of validation, but not in the objective manner that he seeks.

CAROLE: I see. Okay, so give acceptance, but don’t give my physical time all the time, so that....

ELIAS: A very simplistic example....

CAROLE: Make it real simple for me! (Laughing)

ELIAS: He may be expressing, within a moment, a confusion within self and a lack of acceptance of self, and he may express quite simply to you, “Express to me, Mother, I am acceptable; I am okay.” And your automatic response, in what you view to be acceptance and your offering of validation to your son is, “Yes, Son, you are okay.”

This is quite simple as an example. This is an example of his projection of energy, expressing to you the want for outside validation. “I am not providing validation to myself that I am acceptable. Therefore, I shall ask you to provide me with that expression of validation, and I shall quite simply merely ask you, ‘Am I okay?’ and you shall respond, ‘Yes, you are,’ and I shall receive the outside validation that I have sought.”

This is the payoff, and this is the participation in the interaction that you engage that provides the payoff.

CAROLE: So I should not do that?

ELIAS: You may be accepting of his choices without the continuous reinforcement in objective conversation, so to speak. For in actuality, you may be expressing repeatedly, “Yes, Son, you are okay,” and you may believe this expression within you, and you may be even expressing a genuine acceptance of this individual, but your expression of these words is not what shall provide the expression of energy that shall be received and accepted, for within himself, he does not agree. He is receiving his payoff as an outer validation in substitution for his own lack of validation, but within, he is not within agreement with you.

Therefore, it matters not what you are expressing, for he shall express his belief within himself regardless. By your example of acceptance, you provide a different type of validation – not in words, but in BEING.

CAROLE: So in some ways, my accepting him in an overt way, rather than just saying it, would be to allow him to have the organizations that would help him with groceries and all those things, to let them do that, ‘cause that’s telling him I accept him: “This is the reality you’ve created, and this is part of that reality, and I accept it, so I accept that it’s okay for someone else to take you for groceries rather than me, ‘cause this is your reality.” Is this more....

ELIAS: If this is what he is so choosing to be engaging, so be it.

CAROLE: And it’s okay.

ELIAS: Yes. It is not your responsibility. You may not fix him. He is not broken!

CAROLE: (Laughing) Thank you. You’re so good! Thank you!

ELIAS: You are very welcome. (Chuckling)

CAROLE: Final focuses – do we kind of have interesting problems or situations? Are we always strivers because we feel very capable, and do other people kind of perceive us in an unusual way?

I was talking with Mary about this earlier. We were talking about the fact that ... I’m not sure if this is true of all final focuses, but there seems to be a lot of energy around them. Is that because it’s the main branch, or the trunk, if you will, of all the focuses of that particular essence? So, there’s a lot more energy within that trunk, and other people kind of perceive that, and some people will literally or figuratively back off from it? I don’t know. Is this something that you can shed some light on?

And I don’t know if other final focuses have this issue too, but sometimes my energy feels like it’s just shooting out of me, and I’m uncomfortable with it. I was at a friend’s house a couple of weeks ago – I was telling Mary this also – and something very emotional was on TV. It was about a mother and a son – and this is following our other conversation, so it’s easy to understand – that were too close emotionally, and I was emotionally attached to the scene to see what was going to happen, and the TV blew off with this huge noise, and my friend said, “What the?! That’s never happened before! What’s going on?” And inside me, I knew there was so much energy coming out of me that it got to the TV. Anyway, I don’t know if you can piece some of this together, or give me some kind of support or help? (Laughing)

ELIAS: I shall express to you, in relation to final focuses, let me clarify. Your identification of the “body” or the “trunk” is a type of misinterpretation. The final focus is merely a designation of position.

In this, one focus, which is manifest as one individual, is designated holding a particular function or role. This is the designation of the final focus, in similar manner to the identification of a beginning focus.

CAROLE: Is my present husband a beginning focus? I’ve often wondered that, because he seems that way. (Pause)

ELIAS: Yes, in actuality.

CAROLE: It’s delightful – beginning focuses are delightful! He has none of my intensity; he’s delightful! (Laughing, and Elias chuckles)

ELIAS: Now; I shall express to you, individuals that are designated as the final focus hold an awareness objectively that they are the final focus. They may question within themselves objectively their interpretation of this knowing, but each of you does hold an objective knowing and recognition of being the designated final focus.

CAROLE: Yeah, I identify with that.

ELIAS: In this, the identification of that objectively many, many, many times may be quite strong, and in association with the energy lent by many different types of beliefs, individuals that are the designated final focus may create interpretations and translations of that energy and incorporate that into their particular focus, which creates, many times, many expressions of similarities of qualities of these individuals that are the designated final focuses.

Individuals at times – not entirely, and this is not a rule – but many individuals, as the designated final focus, may incorporate more seriousness within their particular focus. Some – not as many, but some – may incorporate what appears to be an extreme of a lack of seriousness.

CAROLE: Or both at the same time! (Laughing)


CAROLE: Because that’s what I do!

ELIAS: I may express to you, it is also quite common that the designated final focus – in association once again with underlying influences of beliefs associated with reincarnation – may experience a restlessness ...

CAROLE: Malcontents! (Laughing)

ELIAS: ... and at times, an impatience.

CAROLE: Yeah, guilty there too.

ELIAS: Now; I may also express to you that it is quite common for designated final focuses to express much of an openness within their energy and within their interactions in their particular focus, or much of a tightness and a closedness.

Dependent upon the individual’s choice of personality – and beliefs, which are quite influencing – the individual may exhibit more of an openness, in an expression of choosing to be assimilating more information concerning this physical dimension, as it recognizes its designation as the final focus.

Or, it may exhibit what you physically may term to be a closedness in fear, in association once again with underlying beliefs concerning reincarnation and karma, and all that they have experienced within this physical dimension, and assuming personal responsibility and guilt.

CAROLE: Is Rick a final focus, my son, the one we were talking about, the one who has....


Now; either of these expressions may be creating of some elements of conflict, for in a choice to be holding tightly to the individual’s energy and expressing what you term to be a closedness, the individual experiences what you may associate as an inability to be effectively interactive with other individuals, and experiences many times an actual physical exhaustion, to a point, for there is a continuous exertion of energy to be holding within this tension.

Within the expression of openness, this may be creating of conflict at times also, for in the exhibition of openness – which, as we have expressed, is another term for vulnerability – in that expression, the individual is not holding so very tightly to their energy and expressing this tension, for the most part, and this is recognized by other individuals.

Both expressions are recognized by other individuals, although the expression of tension is more familiar. The expression of openness is less familiar within your officially accepted reality, and in the interaction of unfamiliarity, there is an automatic response within individuals to be withdrawing.

CAROLE: When someone is too open with them, they’ll pull back or they’ll contract?

ELIAS: Correct, or they may be withdrawing through a type of aggression. They withdraw....

CAROLE: They push away rather than pull back.

ELIAS: Yes, in an expression of energy in pushing your energy away, so to speak, in objective terms, for it is unfamiliar and therefore it is threatening, and to an extent fearful.

CAROLE: Is this what Mary and I were talking about earlier? We were discussing how sometimes people will feel too much energy and they’re uncomfortable with it, and so that’s kind of a pushing away?


CAROLE: Yeah. Is my ex-husband a final focus? I have a strong feeling that he is. (Pause)


CAROLE: Yeah, because when I saw Diana ... when Princess Diana died and I saw her on the inner, without any objective knowledge because my husband and I were on a boat for weeks and we didn’t know about it objectively, except I dreamt about it ... and I’ve mentioned this to you before. When I got back, my ex-husband was on the phone telling me that Diana had died, and he also said to me, “We’re all connected, we’re all connected,” and he was like sobbing, and so I just thought, wow, somehow he connected also with that mass event.

ELIAS: Correct.

CAROLE: And he saw the connections, which my present husband would never objectively go there. Of course we’re all part of the oneness, but objectively, he would never go there. He needs proof – he’s the engineer type. (Laughing, and Elias chuckles) Even though he’s the one I told the following morning – that I dreamt about Princess Diana at the church, and all these people, and she and I had looked at each other – and we knew nothing about this, that she had died – he still didn’t believe me, which is amazing! He still didn’t believe me! It was just a coincidence. (Laughing, and Elias chuckles) He gets hit over the head with information and doesn’t believe it! (Short pause)

Oh, you already answered this. I was going to ask you, I was curious about my first husband, and you as my husband in Ireland, and why you two were so similar – handsome, charismatic, genius, and drunks. Now I know – you were brothers! You drank together in the pubs! Now I know! (Cracking up)

ELIAS: Ha ha ha! (Short pause)

CAROLE: All the old sayings that people have that help people live, such as, “Say what you mean, mean what you say,” and “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you,” all of those things, it’s like they sort of make things run smoothly, if people go along with these rules. But in the last analysis, it matters not, and if you in any way convey that to other people, they just look at you as if you’re ... you should really go to hell and burn there forever because of thinking this way. (Elias chuckles)

But you know, in learning and listening to the things that you’ve taught us, I know that that’s really the truth. It really matters not. But yet, I still get stuck in my own personal things, and to me, it will matter while it’s going on.

ELIAS: Quite.

CAROLE: You know? Then if I read a transcript or I remember a few phrases, I’ll move into the place where it matters not, but there’s still always this going back and forth, and not being able to stay continuously in the “it matters not” mode.

As a matter of fact, there’s kind of a thing going on in a group on the Internet, the Elias group, where we talk back and forth, and we were trading belief cards. I think it’s wonderful! Somebody, I’m not sure who, but one of the people invented it, and we were saying that it was genius, and it is, because we’re getting a look at all kinds of beliefs, and everybody is kidding around, saying that they want the “it matters not” card, and how that’s a really rare card to have. You may see it once in a while, but you can’t really hang on to it, keep it in your wallet and have it be yours.

ELIAS: (Chuckling) The disappearing expression!

CAROLE: (Laughing) The other thing is, I’ve always had a hard time myself personally with being real nicey-nicey, and it always seems to me that when people are doing that, they’re just playing a game. I’m more direct and candid, but I don’t know, sometimes I think I should play the nicey-nicey game.

Something just happened at work, where I didn’t handle it as well as I could have with an employee. I had to tell her something that she needed to know, and she said that I hurt her feelings and I was rude. Well, I just didn’t do the nicey-nicey thing, you know? That’s kind of like religious belief systems, isn’t it? They have just sort of permeated, or am I wrong? It’s like being good, and making sure you do all the strokes with everybody before you tell them something?

ELIAS: There are many influences associated with aspects of religious belief systems that are quite influencing in your expressions of acceptability and etiquette ...

CAROLE: Yeah, exactly. (Elias chuckles)

ELIAS: ... politeness, and what may be acceptable in expressions and behaviors, and what may not be.

I may also express to you that each individual holds their own perception in relation to these types of beliefs.

In this, in your movement into the expression of acceptance, you may create an exercise within your interaction with other individuals, and as you are interacting with other individuals, you may view the other individual as you, regardless of what they are expressing to you, and view them as YOU expressing what they are expressing to you.

CAROLE: So, see it as a mirror action.



ELIAS: For as you associate with mirror action, you have already – most of you – created an identification that a mirror action is another individual mirroring some expression to you that may be similar to your expressions or your beliefs or your behaviors, but it may not necessarily be the same.

You have quite creatively created an expression in this, that you offer yourself an avenue of allowance in this mirror action, in which you may manipulate the association of what is being mirrored, and you may allow yourself to view the mirror action in what you choose to view.

Therefore, I am not expressing that you incorporate the association of mirror action, but that you actually view the other individual as you. Superimpose yourself upon the being of another individual.

CAROLE: And is it, in actuality, me? You know, there’s something else I have in my notes here that I was going to ask you about, and it’s exactly this subject that I keep wondering about. Whenever I have an interaction with someone, and they may be acting one way but I’m thinking, “Gee, they are really thinking this,” is that what’s really going on, and is that because it’s me? And what’s them then? What’s them when I’m having these interactions? And then I come back to the feeling of, it’s all me!

ELIAS: It is.

CAROLE: It’s all me, and so everything that I experience, everything that’s happening, everything that I am searching for or striving for, or people that I meet or experiences that I have, it is all me!


CAROLE: And that is like such a wild, incredible feeling! (Laughing, and Elias chuckles) And you can’t ever be mad at somebody when you know that. You can’t, ‘cause if I bring somebody into my life that’s making me uncomfortable because there’s conflict, it’s me! I did it!

ELIAS: Or you may be temporarily frustrated, so to speak, or even irritated, but you are not creating the action of placing blame to another individual.

CAROLE: Yeah, because the noticing and the realization is there, and you realize that it’s an exercise in futility to be angry at other people. (Elias chuckles) It’s not actual; it’s not true.

ELIAS: This also offers you an opportunity to view many aspects of yourself within your own expressions and your own exhibition of behavior, as you allow yourself to be accepting and assimilating what is being projected to you.

CAROLE: It will help me to understand the expanded version of myself.


CAROLE: So, Elias, why am I giving myself all this pain in my body, this fibromyalgia thing? Am I holding onto too much energy, and it wants to explode out, so it just hurts ‘cause I try to hang onto it or what? (Laughing, and Elias chuckles)

ELIAS: And this is your impression, that you are holding tightly to your own energy, and therefore you are creating this expression of painfulness?

CAROLE: That’s what I’ve come up with ... that’s what I’ve come up with. The other thing that I’ve come up with is that it’s my way of making myself not do so much, you know, not drag my physical body all over the place, but sort of stay put and maybe explore things in more of a staying put fashion, but I’m not positive that that’s right, but that’s one of the thoughts also that has come to me.

ELIAS: Now; you offer yourself that interpretation – in your terms, staying put – that you may allow yourself to examine your own beliefs concerning activity, and too much activity or not enough activity, and that both of these expressions are what you term to be extremes, and extremes are unacceptable.

CAROLE: Which is a belief system.

ELIAS: Quite. This allows you the opportunity to view the intricacies of the belief systems that you hold.

For in this, you create an expression or an identification within your beliefs that a balance is achieved through the coming together, so to speak, of the either/or expression. This is not necessarily the situation!

A balance is created in acceptance; which you need not be in actuality altering your choice to be, in your physical terms, creating slowly or creating within an accelerated pace, expressing an intensity of energy outwardly or not expressing an intensity outwardly within your energy, but in accepting of you, that this is your choice, and that one is not better than another.

As you create the association of balance in relation to the coming together of the either/or, what are you creating? The judgment upon the either/or.

CAROLE: And the judgment is the thing here.

ELIAS: Correct – the association with better, which is also the automatic association that you are not better already, or that you must be or need be striving to become better, and there is no better, for you are already perfect. Therefore, how shall you improve upon perfection? (Chuckling)

CAROLE: My husband, the new, infant, beginning focus, he already has that. He knows that! The little bugger, he knows it! (Laughing, and Elias chuckles)

ELIAS: I express to you also, another element of this expression which you are creating is exhibited in relation to tension. You do create a tremendous expression of tension – within yourself, within your expression of energy, and within your translation of physical body. You create this tension within your energy in association to what you term to be your work, your family, your productivity, your accomplishments, your philosophy, and your assessment of self, and in this, there are many expressions of better or associations of better – how you may be accomplishing better. This creates a tension within your energy.

CAROLE: Trying to be perfect.

ELIAS: Which you already are!

CAROLE: Damn! (Laughing)

ELIAS: Therefore, it is quite unnecessary to be holding to your energy and creating this type of tension, and affecting of your physical body form and its functioning in this continuous tension, and striving to be better, even in the expression of attempting to be better at finding the balance, so to speak.

CAROLE: Maybe I could try a method. I used to actually get rid of tension by doing chants, although I haven’t done that in many years, ‘cause I don’t think I can just snap my fingers now and stop this.

ELIAS: I am quite understanding.

CAROLE: (Laughing) I wish I could!

ELIAS: (Chuckling) But you create your process, which is acceptable also.

CAROLE: Yeah. That’s the thing with knowing that everything is a belief system, ‘cause it’s very hard to do something and believe in it when you know it’s just a belief system.

ELIAS: Ah! But it is not JUST a belief system. It is the design of your reality!

CAROLE: And it is still how we create, right?

ELIAS: Quite, and in this, do not be discounting the belief systems themselves either, for this reinforces your attempt to be striving to be BEYOND the belief systems.

CAROLE: Ah, okay. Ooo, thank you for that one! Ha ha! Bingo!

ELIAS: This is what I am expressing to you in the association of balance – in the acceptance of what you already are creating, of what you ARE, of the beliefs that you hold. This creates the balance; not to be striving to move beyond what you are creating, or to be better, or to be beyond your beliefs, but to be maneuvering yourself and your energy WITHIN them, in acceptance of them, WITHOUT judgment. THIS is the neutralization.

CAROLE: Oh! I threw the baby out with the bath water!

ELIAS: Ha ha ha ha ha!

CAROLE: (Laughing) Thank you. Okay. Yeah, ‘cause I’m not like going around materializing things whenever I want them. I just am not! (Laughing) So okay, that’s good. I’ll use some of my beliefs, ‘cause I used to really enjoy that chanting. It did relax me. I’ll go back to that.

I have a question. I’m wondering ... kind of a twofold question. My mother – who disengaged at the end of 1998 – you said, and I agree, that she had many, many, many very strong belief systems that she was hanging onto, and it was going to be a while before she entered into transition. I’m wondering where she’s at, and I’m also wondering if some of her energy reconfigured – or is reconfigured, ‘cause all time is simultaneous – as my sister’s granddaughter. Because I met her, and it just felt like some of that same energy, and I’m wondering if that’s something that happened. (Pause)

ELIAS: There is an aspect of that focus’s energy which has assimilated and is associated with this small one, but it is not what you may associate with a type of reincarnation.

CAROLE: Good! (Laughing, and Elias chuckles) One Irma was enough!

ELIAS: As for that particular focus, it continues to be creating objective imagery and moving into a slight recognition of difference of reality, recognizing that the objective imagery is not entirely configured in the manner that it has been familiar with previously in physical focus. But there is a continuation of creating objective imagery in association with physical reality, and not quite an engagement in the action of transition yet.

CAROLE: Well, that doesn’t surprise me. (Elias chuckles)

Do you have any little tidbits on parallel realities? I was listening to a tape from this person, Ken Parker, who was really involved in the Seth material, and he had split off. He was leaving from the IRS, because they were after him, and he went to Mexico, and he says he knows about all of his different realities, what happened to each one of them. I’ve had similar experiences, but it started me thinking about it, and that’s where I got the tree trunk analogy too, with the final focus, which I thought was an interesting way of putting it.

But parallel realities – I have seen some realities of mine where I continued in relationships that I was in before. I just wondered if there’s anything you can think of that you haven’t mentioned on that subject. It’s a very interesting, intriguing subject, parallel realities; you know, choices that we didn’t make that continued on.

Now, there’s the earth that we’re familiar with, and there are, as I understand it, just at different vibrational rates – correct me if this isn’t right – other earths, but just at different vibrational rates, so there would be different dimensions, and that our parallel realities have existences in those, such as the one that the person on the bus saw of me in Italy going up the road there?

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking.

CAROLE: Okay. And obviously, it’s all occurring simultaneously.

ELIAS: Correct. In actuality, I may express to you that we may engage an entirety of an interactive session, so to speak, merely discussing this subject! (Chuckling)

CAROLE: Yeah, I know. It’s a big subject, especially to open at the end of a session! (They both laugh)

ELIAS: But in a manner of speaking, I may express to you that your association of other earths, so to speak, is correct. There are many, many, many parallel universes, so to speak, that all occupy this space arrangement and are all very similar configurations. In your physical viewing of them, they may appear almost identical, but the interactions may be quite different, for each is being configured, in a manner of speaking, as a type of alternate choice from this reality; this being, in your modern terminology presently, your “main frame,” and other parallel realities being those that have sprung from this reality.

CAROLE: Is this a main frame?

ELIAS: As to this particular physical dimension, yes. You are not participating in your identification of an alternate reality ... although to the alternate reality, you are an alternate reality! (Chuckling)

CAROLE: I remember being twenty years old and talking to my then sister-in-law and saying to her, “I feel like I’m not awake. I can’t understand it. It just feels like there’s something holding down on the top of my head that I want to burst out of, because it feels like I can’t experience everything that I know is here, and it’s driving me crazy.” Of course, she just looked at me like I WAS crazy, but I just knew that. It felt like if I could just take my head off, take the top of my head off and get out and push out, I would understand it all, but it felt like there was this thing that was tight, holding me in, and I really hated that feeling. So, Elias, I really want to thank you for helping to take the top of my head off! (Laughing)

ELIAS: HA HA! And you continue to be expanding, my friend, in widening your awareness and allowing yourself experiences that you may now recognize as merely different aspects of your reality. I shall express to you encouragement in your continuation in your movement, and I shall continue to be participating with you.

CAROLE: Ah, thank you. Thank you very much.

ELIAS: You are quite welcome. I anticipate our next meeting, and our continuation in interaction.

CAROLE: Aye, that we will, and I will see you at the group session!

ELIAS: Very well! To you in tremendous affection, I express au revoir.

Elias departs at 1:07 PM.

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